BrickOwl will now be the only independent marketplace. It terrifies me as a seller on both sites. Only get 1/10 of my business here, but I certainly want that portion to grow with this change.
There will always be room for an aftermarket - even in the worst case scenario where Lego themselves start selling pieces on BL, they can only reduce prices so far because of the retail pricing of their sets.
So many unanswered questions and so many possibilities. Drive sales up here? Numerous people have already stated they are done with BL because they liked the independence, another wave of new BO stores should be coming along with some customers hopefully.
Everyone, please do your best to complete the BO inventories, parts variants, and pictures, as once the BL catalog information is gone there won't be a similar resource anywhere on the web. At this time, BO is the best chance to continue the quest to properly inventory all sets, parts, and variations (with pictures) once the BL catalog is deemed "unnecessary" by the new owners. Hopefully we'll get a couple of years before this happens...
@Oldfan Someone should be able to get a download of all of the catalog info on BL to preserve it... I don't have the space or know how, but I'm sure it's possible.
New user here. I am uploading my inventory over the next few days. Only have an average 50 sets for sale at any given time. I see too many conflicts of interest with the BL purchase.
Welcome new guys. You can use bricksync to bring over all your stock (when API is back). Please read the help before asking questions. You can then shut down your BL store once everything is listed here.
Would be interesting to hear how Lawrence things about this, but I understand he may not want to talk about it. In his place I think I would be rather worried.
Wow. MIND BLOWN. I can see them wanting to quietly shut BL down in order to reduce competition with pick a brick, or really grow it to control the older part market. So glad I'm here, 'nuff said!!!
Let me bit a bit fairer to TLG - though I personally think businesses are there to make $$ and little if nothing else in most cases. :-)
They also could have bought it to gain control of the purchasing data to better understand what people are rebuilding to drive their republishing releases. That is a non-harmful smart business reason for the purchase...
Just wanted to look at this fairly and objectively vs. just my kneejerk "ugh here comes big business"! :-)
That was unexpected! I knew he was trying to sell BrickLink, but to TLG?!! It’ll just take one cease and desist letter to shut BrickOwl down, lets hope that doesn’t happen. They are actually pretty ruthless as a company.
Talk about timing. Fortunately I hadn’t taken the leap, other than “investing” in a boat load of sets, which are not and won’t now be parted out.
How many complaint from customers being accidentally sent Mega Blocks or other clone brands will it take before LEGO get worried about Brand Values being affected?
I don't see why TLG would try to take down BL or BO. I mean, imagine all the sales they get from re-sellers. Without them, their sales would go down. 2nd, without us resellers, creators are really going to have a hard time getting the pieces they need, greatly discouraging them from purchasing new lego pieces. I think it would hurt everyone greatly.
Guys, I am actually more pessimistic about BrickOwl than I am about Bricklink... Lego needs the sellers because clearly they are unable and uninterested in selling parts - hence the purchase, which is a massive acknowledgement of our work. Either things stay the same there, or they're going to give the sellers on BL wings and it will become harder for BO to compete. There will be budget for new features, and who knows, maybe BL wouldn't even need to charge fees anymore. BL will no longer suffer from the requirement to have a closed budget, because they're an extension of a larger body that generates enough profit. That's how Amazon knocks out competition, and LEGO could do that to stay ahead of competition and to boost the AFOL hobby even more.
I don't really see any scenario in which this is profitable for BO. They certainly didn't buy BL to kill it, they could have killed it without buying it, simply by selling parts. And clearly they don't want to end part selling, because they make it clear they understand that the AFOL market depends on it and they are targeting the AFOL market more and more. Bricklink will either stay the same or get superpowered.
I don't see that harming BO though IMHO, @teup - competition is important. So long is LEGO isn't driving the prices for used crazily down, I struggle to see an impact on BO.
Now, TLG makes a massive investment in that marketplace and actually fixes a lot of the problems (though I don't see the return on investment there for them unless it's really about data for analytics, which could pay for itself), I still don't see a big BO impact. It's kind of like folks who choose to shop target.com vs. amazon. Amazon is a goliath - but there are folks that just prefer target, ya know?
Maybe you're right, but I guess that could depend on which kind of thing you compare a Lego platform to. If you compare it to stores, then yes.. there's some room for two or more. If you compare it to social media, then no.. the one that wins the tug of war will make the other one obsolete.
I don't think TLG is interested in profit out of Bricklink, if they wanted to buy a company for its profit they'd pick anything except Bricklink. I just think they got it so they have some sense of stability and control. After all, who trusts Jay "Seller Tool" Kim to run the show
LEGO bought BrickLink to grow the brand. They realize how big the AFOL market is and want to get that slice of pie under their control, that was likely the primary purpose of the ADP sets, testing the waters, which by the way @Lawrence when will you decide about the inclusion of or not of the sets?
BrickLink’s future will be based on financial gain for LEGO, the database will be extremely valuable to them in determining that. I don’t see why they would leave the API open to the competition, and that will be highly detrimental to us sellers and BrickOwl. LEGO are ruthless. Being a private company, there is no way of finding out anything, it’s all rumors and guesswork until they make their decisions public.
In theory, Lego gets a cut of any sale on BL without accepting any liability or risk, and without the expense of logistics (courier contracts, warehousing, etc.). And they've already had their cut once over either directly at the point of sale or from their distributor.
Product sold on Lego.com or through a retailer = Lego gets a cut Same product sells on BL = Lego gets a bit more
That 'bit more' wouldn't be earned if Lego didn't allow the set to be sold on BL, and additionally, the initial sale may never have happened in the first place if the sale was direct to a BL seller.
I think people underestimate how useful Ebay, BL and BO are for Lego. Sellers using these sites will hoover up any residual stock from retailers so in theory the shelves should always be refreshed with new products quickly, without the need for anything to be sent back to Lego. I think the issue Lego has with resellers is when they try and secure lots of a set before genuine customers get a chance, especially if it's a low-production set or a GWP or something like that. I reckon they simply don't want sets going OOS only to then appear on aftermarket sites at a huge mark-up, at least not until it's been available through official channels for whatever period Lego deems desirable.
There are massive risks with TLG's acquisition of BL - at least for sellers - but I don't think they'll be banning current sets from being sold. I think there is a danger of non-production items from being banned, stuff that should never have left the hands of Lego employees, that kind of thing (even if, on occasion, TLG does allow limited release of such items). And of course non-Lego stuff.
That part of the market could perhaps be catered for here (@Lawrence) but would need a change in policy.
I also think TLG will ultimately look to reign in bad practices like sellers offering to falsifying customs forms, and terms that say buy insurance or you surrender your consumer rights, etc. Previously, buyers could only complain to BL - who were usually deaf, dumb and blind to such complaints - but now TLG could themselves start fielding complaints from disgruntled buyers. I don't imagine for one minute that TLG will countenance dealing with the kind of bad press that Ebay gets from time to time.
And look at the steps Ebay have taken to stack every transaction in favour of the buyer. That could be coming to BL. I suspect TLG may expect sellers to submit details of their business a la Ebay also. BL will be easier for the authorities to take to task when TLG becomes owner, as unlike BL, TLG has a presence in many more countries.
Regards the API, closing that down would shut out BrickStock and affect many of the big sellers who use bespoke stock management programs. They could certainly restrict its use and maybe charge for it, but I think removing the API has the potential to seriously affect BL's income.
For now it is just a waiting game and see what they are going to do. It can turn out good but also very bad for us as sellers. Personally i do not think LEGO is buying it for profit but more for data and the oppertunity to do the branding and communcation the LEGO way. To extent the LEGO feeling further out and deeper into the AFOL community.
For us sellers these platforms will always be a risk to build bussiness onto. You never know what is going to happen to the platform. Although you never know what lies around the corner in bussiness ;-)
I agree with @Teup it will become an interesting time for brickowl! Hope there is a bright future for this platform and Lawrence can find a valid proposition for the platform in a change playfield. Brickowl is just an amazing place to sell with alot of very nice people!
@Graham Although why wouldn't they leave the API open for use ? more sales means more profit in the end for the LEGO group ? until recently you could also download all data from cache.lego.com/xxx/xxx so maybe another goal is set ? futhermore by sharing data they can get even more insight in the market over multiple platforms. The google/facebook strategy?
Only time will tell in the end.... I hope for the best.
One personal note from me and my girlfriend I just wanted to share:
For us it would be a pity to see an end to this. I think most people don't know this about us, but we are not in the game for financial gain. We started our social enterprise with as goal to give people with a challange like Autism and ADHD the change to develop there social and workrelated skills. We do this in a preventive manner starting from the age of 13 to 21 years old with part time fully paid jobs. In this we prevent alot of care later in life and a better connection to the job market.
Because we pay everybody full as an employee, and at the same time provide counsiling (hope it is the right word?) we do not get any form of subsidization. This means you all buying from us makes it possible to do what we do and invest in the young peoples future.
They all love the LEGO would be a shame seeing this dissapear
Information is a big deal for Big Corp so no doubt just the customer/seller database is worth a good chunk to LEGO. And it keeps growing. Exactly their target group even though no doubt they already have info on many of us
Thank you to all above who have articulated well the forthcoming issues this raises. The best minds are here- on BrickOwl. It appears that an end to BrickLord of the Flies would be a smooth move for the LEGO Group to contain its brand and go forward to access a database and finally do damage control. The downtime last week that BL endured with "no change to functionality" makes so much sense now- it was an asset calculation to complete this purchase. Still have to read Jay's Blog on why he doesn't think this is a good idea...
@Graham haha I thought the same. I was like "whoa all these years we've been speculating about what on earth they want to do to Bricklink, and all this time this guy was keeping a blog?!"
I hope @Lawrence sees the opportunity here and strive the corresponding efforts.
Many people on BrickLink had bad experiences with The Lego Company in the past so they are quiet nervous and they will be keen to finally opening a store here. Just give them that little extra incentive.
This place needs more sellers to generate more traffic: give me the sellers and the buyers will come!
Funny. I had a conversation precisely about that with Lawrence yesterday. We changed some emails concerning some things that would be nice to improve IMO. It's an undeniable fact that more sellers in OWL are essential for the site survival and to be a valid alternative to other platforms. I think that a big incentive to catch new sellers would pass for good and simple migrating tools and similar front office interface options. Maybe better fees program also, I don't know 😁
As a customer, I find BL massively off-putting due to the numerous poor site design issues. BO is so much better in this respect that, for me, it outweighs the reduced choice of sellers. And if BL's sale leads to more sellers coming here, I don't see what the attraction of the BL market place would be anymore. (I guess it still offers a slicker Studio -> purchase route)
So from my (blinkered) point of view, the concerns are how any back end reliance on BL could affect BO, and what will happen to Studio when this shakes out.
@subx >how any back end reliance on BL could affect BO
Many sellers on BO started on BL, and they run their shops on both platforms. To make this possible (and not run into issues where one item gets sold on both platforms) they use software that tries to keep both inventories in sync. If/when BL decides to do away with the tools that allow these syncs, those sellers will be in trouble.
So yes, at least for now, back end reliance on BL definitely affects BO.
No one has said this yet but within a 5-year plan from the TLG could it be that at least on BrickLink, heralded as the world's largest aftermarket LEGO, where they will be in control, there will no longer be a "new" demarcation for LEGO not purchased directly from them or authorized retailers- No "new" to parts of sets parted out No "new" to reselling Pick A Brick parts No "new in sealed box" ?
It's quite possible that one of the reasons for the sale was that TLG wants to move more into fan-designed sets (beyond the limitations of Ideas). BL provides a solid platform for that.
I, for one, am overjoyed at the sale of the site because my interest in BL has always been in the catalog and its inventories. It's an unmatched resource that some of us have put an insane amount of time and money into. Regardless of what TLG does, I don't see them messing around with that portion of the site too much. Hopefully, anyway. And they have the financial ability to make the many long-needed improvements to the database, if they're willing.
Between 2010 and 2019, the data in the catalog was always in limbo. Now the site will be owned by a company that has the same investment in and attachment to the data that site members have. Therefore, someone making a contribution of knowledge or photos in the future should reasonably expect that contribution to be preserved for a long time. It's almost as good of a deal (but still not quite) as Brick Owl's open source catalog.
So I'm happy about the change and looking forward to seeing what the future holds for the BL catalog.
Respectfully to you, @StormChaser, whom we are all indebted to for the amazing work you have done with cataloguing, the inventories part of LEGO.com and its paucity of parts due to out-of-productions no longer LISTED is what led many to these off-sites- beginning with and not ending with your tireless efforts on Blink, these sites now are the go-to places for pdf parts lists we all enjoy. This was ALWAYS possible with TLG with addendums to CONTINUE TO HAVE COMPLETE INVENTORIES including what is no longer available and, yet, we feel they failed all of the second generation owners of sets they are trying to complete or recreate.
BL forum will be interesting for a few days/weeks.
Comments
Tyson.
Tyson.
I can see them wanting to quietly shut BL down in order to reduce competition with pick a brick, or really grow it to control the older part market.
So glad I'm here, 'nuff said!!!
They also could have bought it to gain control of the purchasing data to better understand what people are rebuilding to drive their republishing releases. That is a non-harmful smart business reason for the purchase...
Just wanted to look at this fairly and objectively vs. just my kneejerk "ugh here comes big business"! :-)
It’ll just take one cease and desist letter to shut BrickOwl down, lets hope that doesn’t happen.
They are actually pretty ruthless as a company.
Talk about timing. Fortunately I hadn’t taken the leap, other than “investing” in a boat load of sets, which are not and won’t now be parted out.
As they say “time will tell”
There will be budget for new features, and who knows, maybe BL wouldn't even need to charge fees anymore. BL will no longer suffer from the requirement to have a closed budget, because they're an extension of a larger body that generates enough profit. That's how Amazon knocks out competition, and LEGO could do that to stay ahead of competition and to boost the AFOL hobby even more.
I don't really see any scenario in which this is profitable for BO. They certainly didn't buy BL to kill it, they could have killed it without buying it, simply by selling parts. And clearly they don't want to end part selling, because they make it clear they understand that the AFOL market depends on it and they are targeting the AFOL market more and more. Bricklink will either stay the same or get superpowered.
Now, TLG makes a massive investment in that marketplace and actually fixes a lot of the problems (though I don't see the return on investment there for them unless it's really about data for analytics, which could pay for itself), I still don't see a big BO impact. It's kind of like folks who choose to shop target.com vs. amazon. Amazon is a goliath - but there are folks that just prefer target, ya know?
I don't think TLG is interested in profit out of Bricklink, if they wanted to buy a company for its profit they'd pick anything except Bricklink. I just think they got it so they have some sense of stability and control. After all, who trusts Jay "Seller Tool" Kim to run the show
BrickLink’s future will be based on financial gain for LEGO, the database will be extremely valuable to them in determining that.
I don’t see why they would leave the API open to the competition, and that will be highly detrimental to us sellers and BrickOwl. LEGO are ruthless.
Being a private company, there is no way of finding out anything, it’s all rumors and guesswork until they make their decisions public.
Only time will tell.
Why would LEGO want competition for the sale of their products on their website?
Product sold on Lego.com or through a retailer = Lego gets a cut
Same product sells on BL = Lego gets a bit more
That 'bit more' wouldn't be earned if Lego didn't allow the set to be sold on BL, and additionally, the initial sale may never have happened in the first place if the sale was direct to a BL seller.
I think people underestimate how useful Ebay, BL and BO are for Lego. Sellers using these sites will hoover up any residual stock from retailers so in theory the shelves should always be refreshed with new products quickly, without the need for anything to be sent back to Lego. I think the issue Lego has with resellers is when they try and secure lots of a set before genuine customers get a chance, especially if it's a low-production set or a GWP or something like that. I reckon they simply don't want sets going OOS only to then appear on aftermarket sites at a huge mark-up, at least not until it's been available through official channels for whatever period Lego deems desirable.
There are massive risks with TLG's acquisition of BL - at least for sellers - but I don't think they'll be banning current sets from being sold. I think there is a danger of non-production items from being banned, stuff that should never have left the hands of Lego employees, that kind of thing (even if, on occasion, TLG does allow limited release of such items). And of course non-Lego stuff.
That part of the market could perhaps be catered for here (@Lawrence) but would need a change in policy.
I also think TLG will ultimately look to reign in bad practices like sellers offering to falsifying customs forms, and terms that say buy insurance or you surrender your consumer rights, etc. Previously, buyers could only complain to BL - who were usually deaf, dumb and blind to such complaints - but now TLG could themselves start fielding complaints from disgruntled buyers. I don't imagine for one minute that TLG will countenance dealing with the kind of bad press that Ebay gets from time to time.
And look at the steps Ebay have taken to stack every transaction in favour of the buyer. That could be coming to BL. I suspect TLG may expect sellers to submit details of their business a la Ebay also. BL will be easier for the authorities to take to task when TLG becomes owner, as unlike BL, TLG has a presence in many more countries.
For us sellers these platforms will always be a risk to build bussiness onto. You never know what is going to happen to the platform. Although you never know what lies around the corner in bussiness ;-)
I agree with @Teup it will become an interesting time for brickowl! Hope there is a bright future for this platform and Lawrence can find a valid proposition for the platform in a change playfield. Brickowl is just an amazing place to sell with alot of very nice people!
@Graham Although why wouldn't they leave the API open for use ? more sales means more profit in the end for the LEGO group ? until recently you could also download all data from cache.lego.com/xxx/xxx so maybe another goal is set ? futhermore by sharing data they can get even more insight in the market over multiple platforms. The google/facebook strategy?
Only time will tell in the end.... I hope for the best.
One personal note from me and my girlfriend I just wanted to share:
For us it would be a pity to see an end to this. I think most people don't know this about us, but we are not in the game for financial gain. We started our social enterprise with as goal to give people with a challange like Autism and ADHD the change to develop there social and workrelated skills. We do this in a preventive manner starting from the age of 13 to 21 years old with part time fully paid jobs. In this we prevent alot of care later in life and a better connection to the job market.
Because we pay everybody full as an employee, and at the same time provide counsiling (hope it is the right word?) we do not get any form of subsidization. This means you all buying from us makes it possible to do what we do and invest in the young peoples future.
They all love the LEGO would be a shame seeing this dissapear
It appears that an end to BrickLord of the Flies would be a smooth move for the LEGO Group to contain its brand and go forward to access a database and finally do damage control. The downtime last week that BL endured with "no change to functionality" makes so much sense now- it was an asset calculation to complete this purchase.
Still have to read Jay's Blog on why he doesn't think this is a good idea...
Do you have link to jays blog?
been following him for some time- Great AFOL resource, knows what is coming in IDEA program before we do...
Many people on BrickLink had bad experiences with The Lego Company in the past so they are quiet nervous and they will be keen to finally opening a store here. Just give them that little extra incentive.
This place needs more sellers to generate more traffic: give me the sellers and the buyers will come!
So from my (blinkered) point of view, the concerns are how any back end reliance on BL could affect BO, and what will happen to Studio when this shakes out.
>how any back end reliance on BL could affect BO
Many sellers on BO started on BL, and they run their shops on both platforms. To make this possible (and not run into issues where one item gets sold on both platforms) they use software that tries to keep both inventories in sync. If/when BL decides to do away with the tools that allow these syncs, those sellers will be in trouble.
So yes, at least for now, back end reliance on BL definitely affects BO.
Niek.
within a 5-year plan from the TLG
could it be that at least on BrickLink, heralded as the world's largest aftermarket LEGO, where they will be in control, there will no longer be a "new" demarcation for LEGO not purchased directly from them or authorized retailers-
No "new" to parts of sets parted out
No "new" to reselling Pick A Brick parts
No "new in sealed box"
?
I, for one, am overjoyed at the sale of the site because my interest in BL has always been in the catalog and its inventories. It's an unmatched resource that some of us have put an insane amount of time and money into. Regardless of what TLG does, I don't see them messing around with that portion of the site too much. Hopefully, anyway. And they have the financial ability to make the many long-needed improvements to the database, if they're willing.
Between 2010 and 2019, the data in the catalog was always in limbo. Now the site will be owned by a company that has the same investment in and attachment to the data that site members have. Therefore, someone making a contribution of knowledge or photos in the future should reasonably expect that contribution to be preserved for a long time. It's almost as good of a deal (but still not quite) as Brick Owl's open source catalog.
So I'm happy about the change and looking forward to seeing what the future holds for the BL catalog.
This was ALWAYS possible with TLG with addendums to CONTINUE TO HAVE COMPLETE INVENTORIES including what is no longer available and, yet, we feel they failed all of the second generation owners of sets they are trying to complete or recreate.