Catalog Name consistency is lacking.

tons_of_bricks

So I've been noticing some..name discrepancies for lack of a better term. For example with, tile round 2x2 decorated, some are called "round tile", some are "tile round", and others are just "tile". Many of the inverted brackets have the word "up" in their name, but only one of the normal brackets has the word "down". There are two vehicle categories, Cockpits and Windscreens. Yet many Windscreens have the word Cockpit in their name. And looking at the Cockpit pieces, there are words like "Brick" "Slope" and "Bracket" instead of Cockpit.

I feel these name discrepancies will confuse newbies to the site and should be cleaned up. I'm just not sure how to go about it, especially with the windcreens. Should I request to have the name or category changed for these pieces? Should the tile rounds be called "Tile Round" or "Round Tile"?

tons_of_bricks

Was just looking at Round Brick category. We got "Corner" + "Brick" + size, "Brick" + "Corner" + size, and "Brick" + size + "Corner". My OCD is flipping out here. Are there any writtng/unwritten rules or preferences as to how these should be named?

Lawrence

The simple answer is we don't have catalog policies. By default all the names come from Lego and can often be poor until a human edits them. Our basic rule is we prefer natural language names. So for example "Brick 1 x 2 with Studs on 1 Side" instead of "Brick, Modified 1 x 2 with Studs on 1 Side "

Probably the best thing to do is that if there is anything you think could do with improvement, is to submit a name change, and we can then reply to that request

tons_of_bricks

Thanks for the answer @Lawrence . So you'd prefer adjectives before names? Like, Round Brick instead of Brick, Round. Curved slope instead of slope, curved.

vegitt

Would it not be beneficial to set up some sort of (even basic) catalog policies?

Especially as, if several people go in to edit the names, all will have different ideas of what should be standard. I know I've changed item names to what I think make sense, but then see other similar items with different versions.

Lawrence

@firestar246 Yes

@vegitt Yes, it would, and I should, but haven't

tons_of_bricks

I agree with @vegitt, some sort of policy should be set up at some point. For example, looking at the names of animal accessories, half of them have the word "Animal" in them, half of them don't. What would be the preferred option? I personally don't see the need for the word Animal in the name since it's already in the Animal category,but someone else might see different.

It's a big project that gets bigger the more I look at it, but something that should eventually be tackled (I'm trying to do a bit of the easy stuff right now).

Also, thank to Lawrence for letting me know about the tags. Didn't know about those until now.

vegitt

@Lawrence Apologies, I didn't mean to make it sound like you were slacking, I know you are not and the admin here is a lot better than any other online marketplace I've used.

What do you think about letting the community come up with the standards and then you can just approve them or modify them? It would be one less thing for you to do.

Lawrence

@firestar246 Generally what I say is what would you name the item when telling a friend, but I know that varies by person. So yes to redundancy in "Technic Pin" but no to redundancy in "Animal Shark Head"

@vegitt Sure that's fine by me : ) I suppose the way I'd do it would be with examples. So showing what's good, and what's bad. Rather than hundreds of rules that must be specifically adhered to.

tons_of_bricks

That makes perfect sense @Lawrence . I just wanted to get a basis of what you'd prefer before making any more changes.

As to making standards, I'd say the first standard would be to title pieces by "Adjective", "Name", "Size", "Description"

So "Round Brick 2x2 with Axle Hole" for example. Everyone good with that?

Lawrence

Perfect...but with spaces between the "2x2" so "2 x 2"

vegitt

Make sense to me

tons_of_bricks

So a question about editing. I was submitting edits for both names and tags of some animals. Can I change the name, swap over to the tag tab, add the tags, then click submit for approval only once? Or do I have to do click submit for each tab?

tons_of_bricks

Nevermind, looking at my current catalog submissions that are pending, it looks like I only have to click submit once.

tons_of_bricks

@Lawrence : Where would you want the words "Left" and "Right" positioned in the names of pieces? I'm thinking at or near the beginning would be better to make it more noticeable. However, right now most are at the end, so it would rearrange the organization of certain pieces. For example, Wedges and wings. Instead of being organized by size (2x2 Left, 2x2 Right, 2x3 Left, 2x3 Right), they would be organized by direction ( Left 2x2, Left 2x3, Right 2x2, Right 2x3). Not sure what you want to be done there or if you'd even want something like that to be tackled and would rather I stick to the smaller improvements I've been submitting.

Lawrence

I guess I prefer it at the end. I think in my head I think of it as a "Wedge Plate" rather than a "Left Wedge Plate", so to me "Wedge Plate 2 x 4 Left" makes sense

tons_of_bricks

Alrighty, then I won't try to change them then. As long as its all uniform in the catalog I'm good.

Oldfan

Great discussions. As BL is blowing up right now, it's a good time to get the BO house in order, so that when another migration takes place, this site is all set to become the major player.

tons_of_bricks

Exactly @Oldfan ! I personally like the setup and look of the BO catalog better than BL's, but still use the BL one because (1) I'm used to it and (2) images and names here aren't quite as good as BL's. I don't really have time anymore to work on pictures, so I've decided to work some on the names. If we can get the catalog organized and looking good, I'm sure it'll attract more people here!

Oldfan

@firestar246 Awesome! I have no luck with most of my name change suggestions on BO, but once the conventions are put in place and advertised it should be easier. For now I'll just stick with pictures and inventories of my older sets as my way to contribute.

The AFOL's at BL are decrying the changes intended to cater to the brand-new buyers who've never shopped there before at the expense of the sellers and the hard-core fans, but I read that some of them can't stand the BO interface either. If BO can maintain or strengthen its connection to the AFOL while at the same time be easy for the general public to browse and purchase, it will become the go-to secondary site for Lego bricks for sure. The catalog is the best place to focus to make that happen, IMO.

Calibrick

This is my A#1 favorite thread... love to see some consistency, that is awesome! Once we're through a different part of the catalog project, I will definitely cheerfully pitch in on this and to whatever standard ya'll have decided (so long as it's standard so learnable I will love it! <s>). :-)

tons_of_bricks

Great to see everyone getting excited about this! One thing I have no skill at is describing decorations. I've almost got the animal, body part category in order.

Lawrence

After @firestar246 doing most of the work, I've tidied up the Air Animals category which hopefully acts as a bit of an example of what we like at Brick Owl

https://www.brickowl.com/catalog/lego-parts/animal/air-animals

Although a lot of the birds could do with some more accurate short decoration description, there's nothing "wrong" in that category. In hindsight, I probably should have done a category with more variety.

tons_of_bricks

It looks beautiful!

Hoddie

https://www.brickowl.com/catalog/lego-bird-with-wide-beak-and-turquoise-marbled-pattern-with-wide-beak-27062

"with wide beak" twice?

Lawrence

@hoddie I thought Id caught them all but clearly not, as I made the changes earlier I had to manually push some buttons to get them to copy accross and hadn't seen that one. Thanks

Calibrick

Re short decoration descriptions... I used to waaaaay overly wax poetic on these and @lawrence has done really a good job teaching me to trim these down for display (since you can use tags to go reasonably crazy with other bits)... so for example, if you have a sticker that is a decorative license plate with a blue background, white letters, and says THX 1138 with a rose in the background, I just call it "THX 1138 License Plate" and add a few obvious tags such as "rose" (this is probably a bad example, as I bet most people would search on thx 1138 in this case).

Or all the variety of stickers with different decorative flames for cars... I've learned to just call them "flames" or sometimes "curving flames" if that applies, and use tags for anything unique, such as "lightning" for that unique shape or "purple" if they have that unique color (and a tag for "fire" 'cause not everyone calls these flames). :-)

I would love to see all of us using tags more... while a lot of part names we kind of train ourselves to know, I still get stumped on some of the more unusual ones, and a simple tag like "round" or "curved" for a part that has this shape but the word is NOT a part of the title really, really helps people searching. :-) The tag is unnecessary if the word is in the title, of course.

tons_of_bricks

Yes, @Calibrick , I keep forgetting about those tags; didn't know they even existed until I started working on the titles.

Another guideline/rule I feel should be in place is that a piece shouldn't have the name of a separate category in its title. For example, there are lots of windscreens that are called cockpits. There are several cockpits that are called wedges. That'll only add confusion as to where to locate the piece.

leopard37

@firestar246 I disagree, who decided it was a windscreen instead of a wedge. Come at with no knowledge from your store experience and what would you call it. The general shape should definitely be a part of the description. Let's make things easier to find instead of having to know the exact category of a particular piece. (if this is done strictly with tags that is fine).

Tyson.

tons_of_bricks

@leopard37 If the piece looks like a wedge, than it should be named as a wedge and stuck in the wedge category, not named a wedge but stuck in the windscreen category. By having stuff like that, it makes browsing a lot harder.

Say I'm browsing through the catalog and come across Slope Curved 6 x 10 x 2 Inverted (currently in cockpit category). Later on in my browsing, I want to find that piece again. I can't remember where I saw it but do remember it was called a slope curved. So naturally I would look in Slope Curved first. But it's not there. Finally, I find it in Cockpit after who knows how long of searching.

With pieces like the one I mentioned above, either the category needs to be changed to reflect the name, or vice versa. It's very confusing when I'm pulling orders and it's called one thing but found in a total different category. I remember coming across one piece in the door frame category that was called a window...

Hoddie

In all honesty I've never understood the wedge category. When I was a kid we called them wings because that's what they were almost exclusively used for.

Wedge plates should be in a Plates, Wedge category.
Wedge bricks should be in a Bricks, Wedge category.
and most of the rest would appear to be slopes to my mind, with the occasional canopy/windscreen.

And while I'm here,

I don't understand how the ball joint system used in Technic and (mostly) Bionicle and Hero Factory is scattered around the Technic, Themed Parts, Large Figure and Brick categories. It needs tidying up by someone who has the patience to do it. To my knowledge this is one of only two ball joint systems used in modern Lego (the other being those used mostly in Mixels), so it really needs standardising if possible.

For me, the Themed Parts category is an abomination and should be done away with. I would change the catalog hierarchy thus:

System (inc. Technic)
Duplo
Modulex
Primo
Quatro
Znap
Other (includes over-sized blocks).

This would allow you to flesh out the Duplo categories because they're far too broad at the moment, and it brings Znap and others out of the system category with which they're only semi-compatible.

I'd also sort out the Minifig category to separate Mini-dolls, mini-figs, big figs, Homemaker figs, Technic figs, Scala dolls, etc.

I'll never kick up a fuss about the catalogue though because I'm really to busy to get involved myself in anything but a passing, supportive way (we have 3-year old triplets and 2 full time jobs between us), and I accept that everyone has their own 'ideal', but the above would be a good start on my ideal.

For what it's worth, I really do appreciate everyone who puts effort into the catalogue in whatever way. Ultimately we're here to sell Lego and an organised, intuitive catalogue goes a long way towards doing that.

tons_of_bricks

@Hoddie Thanks for the input! Funny how you mentioned wedges, it brought some memories back of when we first started this up and were still learning where everything was.
"That's a car hood! Why is that in Wedge?"
"That definitely looks like a Slope Curved."
Wedge was definitely one of the harder categories to learn.

I agree with you about "Themed Parts". That's not very useful, it's not really obvious what's in there by the title.

I'm also 100% for breaking the minifig parts down more. Its very hard sometimes to determine if a hair piece is one of the friends ones or not. Maybe even go so far as to give the heads with different stud types their own categories (head recessed solid, head safety stud, head solid). Though at the same time we should be careful about breaking it down too much.

I also think Cylinder should be pulled out of Other and be their own category. Doesn't really make sense to keep it tucked under there.

leopard37

I am willing to help if required, however @Lawrence should decide the direction. There are certain pieces that should not mirror BL for sure!!!

Calibrick

If @lawrence is onboard, I second Cylinder being its own catagory, and better breaking out the minifig types (e.g., Technic, Minidolls). I sell a lot of Bionicle/Hero Factory, and updating the inventory makes me batty every round trying to find the parts again... parts with joints don't tie to the word joint or ball, and so on. Would be nice to make those consistent in an agreed-upon (or directed by Lawrence, it's his world and we all get to play in it!) way. I'm buried in other catalog work, but when that's done, I would def help with anywhere folks feel is priority one - I type 99 WPM on a slower day. ;-)

tons_of_bricks

@leopard37 , exactly! I am doing my best to not let my familiarity of BL's catalog determine how I submit edits for this one. I am wondering if minifig, accessory should be broken down further. It's quite the broad category. I have little to no expertise when it comes to the bionicle/ hero factory pieces, so that is something I wouldn't be able to work on at all.

leopard37

I propose changing wedge to a modified slope. There are a couple of modified bricks that should move there as well.

tons_of_bricks

I second @leopard37 's idea. That makes a lot more sense. At least to me.

Lawrence

From my point of view, I'm not sure I'd want to make any dramatic category changes that may mean the current users used to the structure struggle to adjust. For something like moving Cylinder out of other, that's not so dramatic, could you maybe make it as a seaparate thread? Ideally anything like this I'd like to hear opinions on a specific issue. Also splitting categories up into subcategories is certainly a good thing, but it does need someone sufficiently motivated to see that through

Essentially my current priorities are unnamed items, unimaged items, poorly named items, then poorly categorized items. But obviously feel free to submit a catalog change for anything

ForeverSorting

This is a most interesting topic and thank you for the people contributing. I have some ideas too, which I will lay out as time allows.

For starters, is there a way of Plates (Standard) appearing *before* Plates Non Standard on the picking list? What do people think about removing the "Standard" bit on Plates, Bricks, Tiles, Technic, etc?

That would make picking so much easier!

tons_of_bricks

Haven't been doing much with this in a while due to being crazy busy with orders (a good problem to have!), but I'm trying to find time to get back into it. One question for @Lawrence , when putting in lengths for a piece, would you rather have the "L" lowercase or uppercase? For example, "Bar 4l" or "Bar 4L". I'm noticing a mix of both on the catalog.

Lawrence

Uppercase for abbreviations like that, thank you

tons_of_bricks

Ok, another inconsistency I'm finding is spelling out a number in some cases, and in others just using the digit. For example, we have "Brick 1 x 1 with stud on 1 side" and "Brick 1 x 1 with studs on four sides". Which is the preferred method? Me personally, I would say the number should be spelled out if it's not referring to the size. But I could understand if others see differently. I don't really care which way, just as long as I have a guideline to go by for future edits.

Lawrence

Spelled numbers do seem to look nicer, I don't really mind on that one. The problem is I often make a decision about something in one category, which then doesn't work so well in another category. We'll get there in the end

Hoddie

Regards numbers, it's usual in literature to spell single-digit numbers, and use numerals for 10 and above.

tons_of_bricks

Ok, so I have a bit of a trickier one today. As far as English spelling goes, how should that be tackled? I have seen some words spelled differently than how we spell them in the US. I can only guess that it is how these words are spelling in England or another country that uses English. A couple that come to mind are:

Tyre / Tire
Centre / Center

I've seen some other words that are spelled with an "re" at the end instead of an "er" as is normal in US spelling.

Lawrence

I generally tend towards US spellings, often with UK spellings in tags. As the names come from many sources they’re quite inconsistent.

Graham

@ Lawrence
What about wrench/spanner?
I don't believe many folks outside UK use "spanner" in US probably most wouldn't know what a spanner is
using search for each of these gives different results

Hoddie

You can use tags to include other commonly used names for items.