Hello!
To use the forum, login or register above.
(If you are already logged in above, please click here)
Shipping small quantities of LEGO could become very expensive
Dutch Post has new rules for shipping goods. It is no longer allowed to ship goods by ordinary letter. This means that shipping 20 grams of Lego to other EEC countries will cost 7 to 9 euro instead of 1 Euro 50. Moreover ther shipment must be accompanied by paperwork (content, value etc). Shipping a small piece of Lego to the USA will cost 10 Euro instead of 1 euro 45.
The decision seems to be based on new UPU regulations and the fact that some countries require information about the content of the shipment.
I have understood that Canada and the USA already have a same regulation, driving up the postage costs from these countries.
And I also noted Germany officially has this rule now from 1-1-2019, although shipping of goods in a letter is still done without consequences. (Note: the tariff in Germany starts at 4,89, in the Netherlands it starts at 7 Euro)
The question is how PostNL will check the post.
" Hinweis
Ab dem 1.1.2019 können nur Dokumente in Briefen ins Ausland versandt werden. Für den Warenversand können Geschäftskunden die Warenpost International nutzen, Privatkunden nutzen bitte für Waren ins Ausland das DHL Päckchen International (NEU: schon ab 4,89 €) oder das Paket International."
In article 8 of the European Treaty for the Human Rights there is a right that letters could not be opened (apart from very special reasons) and opening of letters needs juridical permission.
And another important question is: would countries start returning undocumented mail?
We already got a letter to Belarus returned because there was no CN22 label on it.
A third question- at least for the EEC- is how this can be seen against the 'free flow of goods' through the EEC. If I go to Germany with a LEGO piece in my pocket I am completely free to do so, when I put it in an envelope it has to be documented.
Moreover, politicians often speak of open competition within the EEC and the wish to equalize shipping costs. (or at least bring the shipping costs within the EEC closer to the shipping costs nationally)
I am also member of the Dutch Association of Stamp dealers and with some collegies we want to raise some questions to the Euro parliament. It could be a islotated action of the privat postal companies orgalized in the UPU, but even if this is the case in many countries these are the only companies having permission to carry out the services of the universal postal service (letters to 50 gram) so are monopolist. What is the purpose of this measure? Keeping out narcotics? Where I can drive a carload full of XTC across the European "borders" without meeting any custom? Or just a way to raise income? These questions are especially relevant for mailtraffic within the EEC.
On the short term, effects will be limited, but in the longer run this measures could be taken by all postal companies and it will be a real thread to all buying and selling LEGO. It will be extremely exprensive to buy a small quantity of bricks.
So here my request: If anyone has more information about this, or can report anything about the situation in her/his country, please let me know. So far. I also did not find the specific UPU guideline.
Especially interested in the situation in Germany. Are you still sending in a letter? Have you ever have troubles with this or returned letters?
Erik
The decision seems to be based on new UPU regulations and the fact that some countries require information about the content of the shipment.
I have understood that Canada and the USA already have a same regulation, driving up the postage costs from these countries.
And I also noted Germany officially has this rule now from 1-1-2019, although shipping of goods in a letter is still done without consequences. (Note: the tariff in Germany starts at 4,89, in the Netherlands it starts at 7 Euro)
The question is how PostNL will check the post.
" Hinweis
Ab dem 1.1.2019 können nur Dokumente in Briefen ins Ausland versandt werden. Für den Warenversand können Geschäftskunden die Warenpost International nutzen, Privatkunden nutzen bitte für Waren ins Ausland das DHL Päckchen International (NEU: schon ab 4,89 €) oder das Paket International."
In article 8 of the European Treaty for the Human Rights there is a right that letters could not be opened (apart from very special reasons) and opening of letters needs juridical permission.
And another important question is: would countries start returning undocumented mail?
We already got a letter to Belarus returned because there was no CN22 label on it.
A third question- at least for the EEC- is how this can be seen against the 'free flow of goods' through the EEC. If I go to Germany with a LEGO piece in my pocket I am completely free to do so, when I put it in an envelope it has to be documented.
Moreover, politicians often speak of open competition within the EEC and the wish to equalize shipping costs. (or at least bring the shipping costs within the EEC closer to the shipping costs nationally)
I am also member of the Dutch Association of Stamp dealers and with some collegies we want to raise some questions to the Euro parliament. It could be a islotated action of the privat postal companies orgalized in the UPU, but even if this is the case in many countries these are the only companies having permission to carry out the services of the universal postal service (letters to 50 gram) so are monopolist. What is the purpose of this measure? Keeping out narcotics? Where I can drive a carload full of XTC across the European "borders" without meeting any custom? Or just a way to raise income? These questions are especially relevant for mailtraffic within the EEC.
On the short term, effects will be limited, but in the longer run this measures could be taken by all postal companies and it will be a real thread to all buying and selling LEGO. It will be extremely exprensive to buy a small quantity of bricks.
So here my request: If anyone has more information about this, or can report anything about the situation in her/his country, please let me know. So far. I also did not find the specific UPU guideline.
Especially interested in the situation in Germany. Are you still sending in a letter? Have you ever have troubles with this or returned letters?
Erik
Powered by Vanilla
Comments
This is coming to all postal services because the UPU has agreed stricter rules for what constitutes a letter (i.e. no goods). It's already in force in Germany.
It won't replace letterPARCELS (that have track&trace), it replaces LETTERS (shipments under 350 gram that can be thrown in a mailbox). It will not be cheaper, it will cost UP TO 5x the present rate. So LEGO can only be shipped in a parcel, the ' compensation' is that they introduced a parcel rate up to 350 gram that is slightly under the basic parcel rate.
It mainly effects shipments up to 100 gram.
These "parcels" still don't have a track&trace (letterparcel do) but some details need to be filled in in the PostNL account.
It looks that an account is needed to ship, but this will also be available for consumers I guess (otherwise consumers won't be able to swop stamps or ...)
So apart from all, PostNL is gathering lots of information and it is interesting to see who will have access to that... (Have to read the privacy terms).
Letters with goods, no track&trace
To nearby EEC countries:
20 gr old 1,45 (2019) new 7,00
21-50 old 2,90 (2019) new 7,00
51-100 old 4,35 (2019) new 7,00
101-350 gr old 8,70 (2019), 7,50 (2020) new 7,00
To other European countries
20 gr old 1,50 new 9,00
21-50 old 3,00 new 9,00
51-100 old 4,50 new 9,00
101-350 gr old 8,70 2019, 7,50 2020 new 9,00
Outside Europe
0 gr old 1,50 new 10,00
21-50 old 3,00 new 10,00
51-100 old 4,50 new 10,00
101-350 gr old 8,70 2019, 7,50 2020 new 10,00
Professional dealers have to add 21% VAT for EEC shipping.
If this is the case, it won't be long before other postal administrations make the same rule
Poor LEGO buyers and sellers being victim of the trade in narcotics.
However, it will require tedious administrative work, which will either make sellers decide not to accept very small orders, or to charge extra handling fees. All in all, the change is neither amazing nor terrible.
Buspakje
Gewicht (g) Europa en Wereld
0 - 20 1,168
20 - 30 1,432
30 - 40 1,972
40 - 50 2,337
50 - 100 2,896
100 - 200 4,092
200 - 350 5,896
350 - 500 7,940
500 - 1.000 8,712
1.000 - 2.000 8,949
https://www.postnl.nl/Images/tarievenboekje-2020-nl_tcm10-165877.pdf?version=2
Yes I think you are right, so no panic.
I did not note the new page in the tariff booklet.
Still there remain some problems, the minimum yearly number (50) could be a problem for small sellers, but will be threated flexible the first year. And small shipments outside the EEC that are now send without a CN22/23 label could be taxed. (For the tax I think this is correct, but there is also a huge amount postal services ask for cashing the tax). And I don't know what postal administrations can do with the data they collect. If tax officers can look into these data, it might be a problem for larger unregistered traders. The electronic collection of data will make it a lot easier to check. I recently read an article that the tax authorities have increasing problems labeling transactions 'private' or 'business' because all sort of internet activity. Well, this sort of registration will help them....Being professionals, we don't have to fear this, and I am neutral about non-registered dealers. But I won't be very happy with this registration when I would have run my business as a hobby very actively selling parts I don't need for my own collection.
All together it is clear the change is to overcome the problems opening 'letter post' for checks. Labeling it "parcel" means contents can be checked random and without juridical approval.
Your reaction on my post helped me a lot , thanks!
Tracy