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Drop shipping ???
I have received a couple (3) of orders from someone who seems to be a 'drop shipper'.
In the order notes he says something like this: "Hi there! Please don't include any invoice or notes in the parcel. Parts only. Thank you!"
All addresses on the order (shipping, billing and PayPal address are the same, but the actual payment came from a British company.
Questions:
a) Is this allowed on Brick Owl?
b) If this is allowed I really don't like this. When something goes wrong with the order, who's responsible? Can I prevent this kind of orders?
I'm also wandering how it is possible that all addresses are the same while the actual person that DOES make the payment is someone else. Isn't this an infringement to PayPal's Terms of Service?
In the order notes he says something like this: "Hi there! Please don't include any invoice or notes in the parcel. Parts only. Thank you!"
All addresses on the order (shipping, billing and PayPal address are the same, but the actual payment came from a British company.
Questions:
a) Is this allowed on Brick Owl?
b) If this is allowed I really don't like this. When something goes wrong with the order, who's responsible? Can I prevent this kind of orders?
I'm also wandering how it is possible that all addresses are the same while the actual person that DOES make the payment is someone else. Isn't this an infringement to PayPal's Terms of Service?
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If you choose to send anyway, so long as you send to the address given by PayPal, the seller protection should be in place. BUT, as I'm sure you know, no transaction that involves PayPal is truly safe regardless what steps you take.
Btw I’m a hobby seller not a company.
2) It depends what goes wrong but the seller will usually end up out of pocket if something goes wrong.
2) No but you can always cancel the order and eat the PayPal fees.
I think this comes down to the individual seller and what they're comfortable with.
I know of a couple of peers who messaged me in advance and asked if I minded, in which case I've been happy to help out. But they also were up-front with their buyer and **allowed me to include a business card, invoice, etc.** I even once emailed a couple of sellers and asked them to fill and ship an order for me that I had screwed up on, being clear to my customer I was doing that and who they were- bought under my nick, shipped to them. They were invited to add cards, invoices, etc. I just wanted this customer to be taken care of, as the parts were for their kid's school project and they realllllly needed them.
No one has never done this NOT broaching me first though. Just for my worldview, I would decline - not because I think it's a naughty thing to do (just because I disagree with the business model doesn't make it wrong or illegal, obviously! <s>), but because I worry for my own and the buyer's liability. In the eyes of PayPal (where I get my seller protections), I am the core seller. I want protections. I'm also potentially collecting tax - which is another question (if you're US). What if the first seller should have been taxed, but using this method to "ghost" the buyer then avoids taxes (if they're doing that, of course, dunno if they are)? That isn't cool then.
I'm sure some folks will think I am silly for turning away business, but that's ok. I don't think someone is wrong if they take the business either. Just a personal decision, I like to be super duper up-front with buyers since I'd like my sellers to be super-duper up front with me. :-)
Then again, I'm the kind of idiot (or highly ethical person, it's all in your POV), who sold an overpriced set to someone that was still in production - I actually told them where to buy it for $100 less online (Wal-Mart) and offered to canx their order (and kind person that they are, they very surprisingly did NOT cancel but did appreciate the tip). But I don't think it would have been unethical if I had NOT done that, either - Google is free, anyone can find a good deal in many cases if they try.
So I just cancelled the order (50 parts in 15 lots worth € 3).
If they pay by PayPal and you send to the PayPal address with tracking, you have the exact same protection as if it wasn't a drop ship. If you don't use tracking or send to any other address, then sure, you may run into an issue.
As I said in my original post to the thread, the only issue you'll have is if customs take issue with the lack of an invoice. And I don't know about Dutch law, but under UK law there is no such thing as a 'hobby' seller. You're either buying to sell and thus in business, or you're not. If you're simply selling your own Lego collection, fair enough, but anything beyond that brings you into the scope of EU consumer legislation and other laws aimed at businesses (safety in the workplace, packaging standards, export restrictions, etc).
There is no binding contract between the buyer (= receiver of goods) and the seller when a third party acted as the buyer because he paid. So I only have a contract between me (seller) and this third party. If anything goes wrong I can only communicate with the <i>receiver</i> of the goods because that is the only person Brick Owl allows me to send messages to, not the one who abused PayPal to pay for the order.
I say 'abuse of PayPal' because the famous PP buyer protection is only valid if the buyer and the person who actually paid for the order are the same person and the seller shipped the order with tracking.
@Lawrence :
Please explain and motivate the policy if Brick Owl. When you decide that this practice is allowed on Brick Owl then you should also make it possible for sellers like me in the EU to contact the third party who paid for the transaction.
I don't want to give you a headache, but after October 31 when Britain leaves the EU, there are a lot of legal problems you have to handle in order to get this amazing website right. Are you prepared for this?
Cheers:-)
Martin
There are several binding contracts in play here. One between you and your buyer, one between your buyer and their buyer, one between you and the shipping agent you choose, and one between you and BrickOwl.
You have no contract with the person/company who you're sending the parts to. There's no need for one. You have no need to contact them. If you're unable to fulfil the order for whatever reason, or something goes wrong with the shipping agent, you deal with the person who placed the order with you, and then they deal with their customer.
If the person you're sending the parts to doesn't receive the parcel, they will complain to their seller, who in turn will complain to you, who in turn complains to the shipping agent. It's a pretty standard business transaction.
PayPal's seller protection relies on you sending the parcel, with tracking, to the address provided by PayPal. That's it.
BrickOwl has no role to play in whether or not a cross-border transaction is legal or not. That is down to the parties involved (buyer/seller). The site needs only to facilitate a company's ability to meet relevant laws. Brexit doesn't change this. It's just that a Netherlands->UK sale will become similar to a Netherlands->USA sale rather than a Netherlands->France sale.
But again, that is just me and that is what helps me sleep better at night. Others decisions are not for me to support or push back on. I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't do something in this scenario, it's just how I feel and has helped me sleep better over the years, even if the result isn't in my best interest and may or may not have been totally fine if I had done otherwise. :-)