Part out feature to allow percentage +- from averages.

minithingsforlife

Would it be possible to allow a +- percentage adjustment from averages when parting out.
For example, if I wanted to part out this set at 5% lower than current listings of the parts.

Timothy_Smith

What a great way to drop prices below profitability. "Race To the Bottom- GO!"

Lawrence

There is actually a variant of this on the list, currently you can set your default price history type you want to use, I intend to make it so you can set a percentage modifier of that also.

Graham

It isn't necessary - there is already a "mass inventory update" feature,

also by doing so to a set, as Timothy points out "race to the bottom" whilst not likely literally - it will start screwing up data, some parts in any given set are worth more, some less than average, and then it depends on quantity as well - in some cases you can sell a large number of a high demand items for more.

And as pointed out in another thread to solely rely on ANY average data - would not be the best idea
Then there is geographic location to consider as well UK/EU prices are generally more than US, for example.

For those of us who don't get wholesale pricing, we don't need a price war, add it by all means but PLEASE think before using it!

-1

Timothy_Smith

Also, there's a limit to how much auto-pricing a website can do before you get into price fixing.
I'm not a lawyer, and obviously an international site has a more complicated environment. But it's a real factor.

minithingsforlife

The website s only producing market data, the actual act of pricing is still down to individuals, and as long as they do not make agreements with other parties, then no price fixing takes place.
For instance I can see the market averages for selling a three bedroom house, and can sell my house at that average should I wish, but the data provider is not fixing the price, and nor am I if I am not consulting with other sellers and agreeing pricing.

The mass inventory update does not have enough filters to be able to reduce only recently added inventory by a percentage. So I disagree, a feature to set your prices at part out to levels based on averages is a sensible suggestion, or a filter on the mass update to only update recent lots.
This is not about a price war, but if I want to set cheaper prices than my competitors then why can I not have a feature to allow me to set the prices easier than one at a time.

And I am not sure how it would screw up data. An average after all is an average, if I decide to sell cheaper then I maybe altering the average for anyone else, but those who want to sell more expensively are doing the same, but you still have an average, one that is mathematically correct and not screwed up.

Thor

James, I would be very careful using automated pricing features on this site. Tim's comment about potential price-fixing is absolutely correct. As a retired attorney with some experience in US, Canadian, EU and Japanese competition law matters, I urge you to use caution. I can't give you legal advice of course. But I do suggest you seek legal advice from your own counsel before you provide a site-wide feature that allows multiple competing sellers to price the same goods at the same "average" price.

I (and others) have long considered automated pricing on BrickLink and through BrickStore to "Price Guide Averages" as legally suspect and questionable. Although illegal price-fixing requires some sort of agreement or plan or scheme among two or more competing sellers to non-independently determine their respective prices for the same or similar goods, some courts and government agencies are very aggressive and liberal in what they consider an agreement or plan or scheme to fix prices. Actual intent and face-to-face meetings or direct communications between the sellers are not required in many cases. And it is not even necessary for prices to be raised. Price-fixing has also been found where the scheme operated to decrease overall prices. You do not even have to sell those items yourself, if you provide the tools or ability that knowingly facilitates or makes such price-fixing possible. And even if giving multiple sellers the ability to price their same goods at the same "average" prices is not price-fixing, it may well run afoul of other competition laws in the EU, USA or elsewhere.

The fact that BrickLink has never been charged with any wrongdoing does not mean its use of automated "average" pricing is necessary legal or risk-free. It could just as easily mean that BrickLink has been lucky so far and has not been caught or investigated yet. And the fact that BrickOwl and its sellers may be small does not insulate you or them from any investigation or legal action. The US Department of Justice Antitrust Division, Canadian Competition Bureau and European Commission on Competition and Antitrust have all been known to go after small operators to make quick easy examples of them. Any such investigation or legal action is extremely time-consuming, burdensome and expensive to defend.

In short, it is one thing to merely provide data on average prices and then leave it at that for readers to decide for themselves what, if anything, to do with that data. But legally, it may be completely another to call (promote) such average prices as a "guide" or make it so many different competing sellers can automatically price the same goods at the same "average" prices.

Don't just assume it is OK. Check it out.

Thor

minithingsforlife

Thor,
While I understand your comments and am the first to admit I do not know anything about it legally, and would agree that Lawrence should check it out before proceeding, it seems totally stupid for the law to be invoked on the facilitator of a means to set your price to a market average. After all the facility all ready exists for me to set my price to an average because I can set it to whatever I want. Automating it further surely cannot make you more guilty of law breaking, if you already provide an average price data and a field to let a seller type in their price (whatever price they decide to use).
As I said earlier, average price data is available in many industries e.g. properties, motor vehicles etc.

Andy

walstib

Andy,

I hear your points well. From the perspective of someone who is experienced and is looking at the big picture it can be a useful tool.

My concern is twofold, the "price fixing" issue I leave to others, your comment that you can already set to averages valid.

One is that if more people go below average with a push of a button than do not, prices do spiral downwards. Almost a mathematical certainty. It's the new or uninterested people that have my concern that do not know what they do.

It's a selling gimmick many use, this much "below average" sounds great, but from my experience does not really lead to that many sales unless you start going so low you are headed for a loss on the product. Low enough a reseller swoops in and takes all your hard work sorting because they know what part sells for three times average regularly.

That ties in the second point that it hurts new sellers competitiveness. Ones that want to get in seriously and not "buy feedback" with their hobby. (not going to work so well here that one)

An atmosphere of "below average prices" leads new people not in the know to try and beat the already below average prices if they want to compete. These people push the prices even lower faster, and damages the marketplace in general.

I could go on further, I just think in general the ability we have even now here is too much and over time will not encourage the growth of smaller sellers.

Joe

Thor

I agree with the argument that a feature such as this will put increased and constant downward pressure on prices. Like Tim said, it would be a race to the bottom.

As for the potential problem of price-fixing, I again urge Lawrence to seek his own legal counsel on this matter. I also need to reiterate and re-emphasize the very important fact that you are not merely providing data about average prices. Instead, you are also facilitating and giving multiple competing sellers the very tool or "scheme" they need to automatically and systematically set the same "average" prices for the same items. This goes way beyond passively providing mere data. And it is a distinction that may have serious legal and financial consequences not just for BrickOwl and Lawrence, but for any sellers who use this pricing tool or scheme.

Some may find such laws stupid or not see any red flags with this pricing tool/scheme. However, with all due respect, when it comes to your financial livelihood or personal freedom, you should not rely on the doubts expressed by laypersons who are not trained in this particular field. I am not saying this is or is not legal. I am just saying that it raises more than enough red flags that it should be checked out with a professional experienced in such matters. And if you can't afford to have it checked out, then don't do it. Just provide the data and nothing more.

Thor

Timothy_Smith

As I said earlier, average price data is available in many industries e.g. properties, motor vehicles etc.

It's my understanding that an outside source isn't the same sort of thing.
Using a program like BrickStore to gather data, especially if it used more than one source, would probably be legal. Having a tool to set a price automatically from within a website, using price data from that same site, would be questionable.

Thor

Tim is correct... again. Merely gathering and providing price data is perfectly legal. But when you then create a system that automatically fills out forms with average "GUIDE" or "GUIDELINE" prices pre-filled in by that system, it just makes it too easy for many different sellers to have the same prices for the same things. It may not be the specific conscious intent of these sellers to fix-prices, but it certainly is the result. And when it comes to price-fixing, the RESULT of a scheme is just as important (if not more important) than the intent behind that scheme, especially when the result is known in advance. Doing something with knowledge of a result evidences intent to achieve that result.

You get around this problem by leaving the system and its automated pre-filled forms out of it. Just give the raw pricing data and then let each seller manually decide and input their own prices themselves.

Thor

Timothy_Smith

I had a good teacher.

I've always wondered why there is no price-analyzer software for lego reselling. It would be easy to scrape data from a given site and then manipulate that info using statistics. With the right person setting up the analysis you could find the trending parts, the outliers, all sorts of interesting data.

DagsBricks

I'll pay you $20 if you write it and release it. I'm doing a LOT of work by hand to research my new business model. Software like that would save me time.

Brian

minithingsforlife

This I my point. I do not want to agree prices with other people, I want to set my prices at a level I want. But to do that one part at a time is time consuming. But if a feature like this is going to cause a problem with legalities then I will withdraw my request.

Thor

Andy, I know it is convenient. And that may be part of the problem. It may be TOO convenient. On BrickLink I have seen far too many sellers use the BL Price Guide average prices as a crutch. It is so quick and easy just to input average prices that many BL sellers routinely do just that without really thinking about it. The result is that you have a group of many supposedly competing sellers selling the same things at the same average prices. By automating this process systemically, BrickLink may be enabling this relatively uniformity in prices. In fact, one could even argue that BrickLink is actually promoting such uniformity in prices with its automated pre-filled in pricing system based on its own Price "GUIDE".

I have never ever used BrickLink's automated average pricing features. I prefer to play it safe, even if it takes more time. I also never want to be average at anything.

Thor

DagsBricks

I admit that I use the BL PG when uploading new parts. However I also take the time to look at each individual part in it's color and notice trends. Most of the time I cut a little off but depending on demand, history, and how many of that part I have, I may even increase the price. Now that I have decent feedback, a load of parts, and a bit of a financial buffer, I feel like I don't have to under cut to make a profit anymore.

Brian

Graham

On pricing - there is a big seller in France, no names but most have likely bought from them.

Their prices are way high - up to 2x "average" or more.

They get (loads of) business because of the shipping fee being extremely reasonable - which, unlike most BL sellers - you know exactly what they will charge you.

And they have an extensive range of parts - when creating a wish list I would find pretty much always they had most of the parts I wanted, now when it came to large ammounts of one part they didn't - then I used to go to a seller in Norway - who's prices (being ex VAT) ended up reasonable - UK customs don't seem to be aware that Norway are NOT in the EU!
So it depends on the kind of store you have Bulk/Specialized/ a "little bit of everything" etc
It also depends on location.

Only you know at what level to price things at in your store - higher prices means less sales, but higher profit on those parts with less work!

I like to look at BS "average" 6 month data to give an idea and also to catch high demand parts that go OOP - or come back into production (the 10182/10190 Blue Arch for example)

In closing I would say there are far too many variables to make being "average" work.

BO has the mass % change feature which works well.

G