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Written Warning Wave in Germany
Dear Lawrence,
right now we got a huge problem for german sellers at the other side.
In my opinion it´s just question of time that they reach BO as well.
There is a wave rolling of written warnings, from a law firm against a lot of
german sellers.
It´s very important for all german sellers to include this warning to every listed
single item:
Some LEGO sets contain small parts that are NOT suitable for and may pose a hazard
to children under 3 years of age. LEGO® DUPLO® sets have larger pieces which
are specially designed for children under 3.
Please give us the way to add this in an easy way, otherwise most of the german
sellers will loose the ability to sell over Brickowl in the near future.
all the best
Klaus
right now we got a huge problem for german sellers at the other side.
In my opinion it´s just question of time that they reach BO as well.
There is a wave rolling of written warnings, from a law firm against a lot of
german sellers.
It´s very important for all german sellers to include this warning to every listed
single item:
Some LEGO sets contain small parts that are NOT suitable for and may pose a hazard
to children under 3 years of age. LEGO® DUPLO® sets have larger pieces which
are specially designed for children under 3.
Please give us the way to add this in an easy way, otherwise most of the german
sellers will loose the ability to sell over Brickowl in the near future.
all the best
Klaus
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thank you for the quick reply.
This not enough, in gemany we will need it under every single position.
For example:
https://doktorbrick.brickowl.com/store/lego-rail-2-x-16-x-6-bow-with-3-2-shaft-26560
Here should be the warning as well.
Just to clarify, that warning is shown on every item page in the store
In my case there is right now no written warning, I think I fit to all the stupid regulations in my country.
> Just to clarify, that warning is shown on every item page in the store
You´re right, I will clarify it with my lawyer.
It should be working, hope so ;-)
To all german sellers, check your terms asap.
It´s no fun to get in touch with a written warning.
> It's a crazy world we live! I'm all for safety, but parents need to take responsibility for their children and stop blaming others!
Second that!
In any case under age persons should not be attempting to make an online purchase. Period.
It should be a matter of all on line sales platforms seeking confirmation of legal age before allowing anyone to make a purchase.
It is only an issue if something says the safety message must be big and red or very obvious.
Something like that would be nice and very usefull for us here in rainy Germany.
The ability to switch on/off a Warning Symbol, to avoid the use for relaxed countries ;-)
Positioning maybe like this, from another german selling plattform.
https://brickscout.com/de/shop/STEINAUFSTEINSHOP/products/detail/4059217440914?condition=NEW
Nobody wants this for you.. some politicians need to wake up and stop the craze..
how can I edit the frontpage?
I have to insert some things there.
I can't find the option.
It should look something like this https://doktorbrick.brickowl.com/
thanks
From this it seems once BrickOwl is on the radar, same thing will happen, I’ve copied and paste below...
There are specific laws here that require specific things an online shop needs
to fulfil. That starts with things like company details (that most include certain
things), T&C, transaction cancellation forms but, choking hazard warnings but
it also goes as far as always saying "incl. VAT + shipping" next to a price and
having the BUY NOW button with a specific German wording.
Most of these requirements make sense to a certain degree cause they were introduced
to protect people from scammers. However, now it's the sellers at risk. There
are associations now and their mission is to find every single little mistake
you make. They write it all down and ask you to pay xx amount (seems to be around
200 Euros) and they make you sign a contract that says that you will not do the
same mistakes again. Of course those contracts are never phrased in your favor.
If you do any of the mistakes again at any point in the future you will have
to pay again and then it's not a few hundres, but a few thousands.
So basically, if you get the warning and you sign the contract, you can basically
say good bye to any online shop because you will always be at risk.
Your only chance is to get a lawyer and try to change the wording in that contract.
You only have about 7 days though.
While many of the things can be corrected in your terms with a flood of text,
there are some things that can't be done by the sellers now and they need
Bricklink to change some things. Problem is that we all know that this might
take a while...
And yes, this is still legal for those associations and has been a problem for
years now so while there is a new law against it on the way, it might still take
a long time before those associations can't do this anymore.
But I fail to see how some random lawyer can enforce a one-sided contract against strong EU protections against such things, particularly if you refuse to sign.
Any competent consumer organisation would in the first instance go after the platform and only threaten individual businesses using that platform if it refused to play nice.
Sounds like a scam to frighten people into coughing up a few hundred.
> It's Kafka and autistic beyond belief.
I'm autistic (I have Asperger) - please don't use the word 'autistic' in a condescending way...
I am new at brickowl an coming from BL where I closed my store because of this. I do this selling beside my full time shop as mother (i have a legal company, not private selling). My income is low, but perfect if you dont can plan fix working times. So I cannot risk any law costs, 200€ is already more than half of my monthly income.
I heard that on brickowl there already exists the „Jetzt kaufen“ solution. Hope that this is true. Also i am very confience, because as I can see here in the forum, there exists admins from brickowl who answer and as I see it until now, are also willed to react for their sellers. That is not the case on BL.
Main thing will be to have the knowledge what needs to be done to make this side legal to german law. I would be definitely willed to help to pay a lawyer when someone will organize one (I dont have any contact to one until now). And best would be, if more shops will join it, so for each shop it will be only a small bill, much less as 200€ for sure. (I am also open to organize a lawyer when several shops will join it).
> > @Teup said:
> > It's Kafka and autistic beyond belief.
> I'm autistic (I have Asperger) - please don't use the word 'autistic' in a condescending way...
I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way. My dad has it too and I didn't mean it in a condescending way. For example, I could criticise laws for being messy, while I myself am messy, but for laws such a quality would be unacceptable, while for a person it's an entirely different story. And for alot of things, an "autistic" approach is actually a blessing.
Welcome! You will find the admins here very wonderful and responsive! :-) I wish you the best for your new store over here - happy holidays!
R,
Sandy
> > @Leftoverbricks said:
> > > @Teup said:
> > > It's Kafka and autistic beyond belief.
> > I'm autistic (I have Asperger) - please don't use the word 'autistic' in a condescending way...
>
OK, apologies accepted!
I suggest someone investigate German retail compliance. Personally, I would have thought that the current warning statements on Brick Owl are quite enough and to the best of my knowledge, comply with EU legislation.
Page: 02009L0048 — EN — 24.11.2017 — 005.001 — 8
Scroll down to: Article 7
Obligations of distributors
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:02009L0048-20171124&from=EN
Or German version here:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/DE/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:02009L0048-20171124&from=EN
After studying this article, I conclude that the current situation will suffice through-out the EU, however, as a measure of over compliance and for the peace of mind of many sellers, you may feel more confident if you include with each order, a written statement such as the declaration on each item(s) page. (LEGO Parts can be small, they are usually not suitable for and may pose a hazard to children under 36 months.)
> It's a crazy world we live! I'm all for safety, but parents need to take responsibility for their children and stop blaming others!
Yep totally agree with that comment. There is far too much
The best advice is not to take legal advice from strangers in internet forums, which is what many people do. Along those same lines, do not expect marketplace websites, which have their own legal counsel, to make legal decisions based on second-hand information from strangers in internet forums.
> Does this mean that we all should have the warning on our pages?? If so where do we insert the warning on our home page??
Again, refer to legislation. The required warning is on the item pages. To be super safe: include the declaration with each order.
> @62bricks said:
> The best advice is not to take legal advice from strangers in internet forums, which is what many people do. Along those same lines, do not expect marketplace websites, which have their own legal counsel, to make legal decisions based on second-hand information from strangers in internet forums.>
Hence the links to the actual legislation.
>
> @WESTIEKATH said:
> > Does this mean that we all should have the warning on our pages?? If so where do we insert the warning on our home page??
>
> Again, refer to legislation. The required warning is on the item pages. To be super safe: include the declaration with each order.
>
> > @62bricks said:
>
> > The best advice is not to take legal advice from strangers in internet forums, which is what many people do. Along those same lines, do not expect marketplace websites, which have their own legal counsel, to make legal decisions based on second-hand information from strangers in internet forums.>
>
> Hence the links to the actual legislation.
>
The legislation to which you linked applies to new products. Second-hand products are covered under different legislation.
Again, do not take legal advice from strangers on the internet.
> The legislation to which you linked applies to new products. Second-hand products are covered under different legislation.
Not quite true, it applies to toys sold by retailers. Whether or not they're new doesn't matter. A retailer is legally responsible for ensuring what they sell meets all relevant legislation. It doesn't apply to consumers selling toys at a boot or garage sale, or on Ebay or BrickOwl.
> Again, do not take legal advice from strangers on the internet.
I agree but there are some of us (like me) who are intimately familiar with EU consumer law because that's our day job. I would always encourage people to seek professional advice locally, or otherwise spend time reading and understanding the law, but pointing people in the right direction usually doesn't hurt. The danger in referring to EU directives is that they represent the minimum that must be transposed into national law by member states, but some - particularly the UK and Germany - often introduce stronger legislation than the minimum, so meeting the requirements of the EU directive may not necessarily be good enough.
> > @62bricks said:
> > The legislation to which you linked applies to new products. Second-hand products are covered under different legislation.
>
> Not quite true, it applies to toys sold by retailers. Whether or not they're new doesn't matter. A retailer is legally responsible for ensuring what they sell meets all relevant legislation. It doesn't apply to consumers selling toys at a boot or garage sale, or on Ebay or BrickOwl.
My reading is different because there is separate legislation that specifically mentions labeling and warnings on second-hand products.
But you may be right, which is why,
> > Again, do not take legal advice from strangers on the internet.
>