Bricklink limiting data

DagsBricks

Bricklink announced tonight that they will begin limiting their data on October 1st including xml, csv, and tab-delimited files. Not sure about catalog data. How will this affect BrickOwl?

Brian

Eccohawk

I'm not sure that they stated they were going to limit people's access to the data. Rather, just that they were limited members' use of said data, specifically forbidding the transfer/etc of that data to third parties, ie BrickOwl. There were so many flaws in the wording of those two changes to the TOS, however, that I hesitate to react much further than I already have, until the dust settles a bit better. They were both mutually exclusive to one another. One said all the data was theirs with no option to transfer to a third party; the other said it was a non-exclusive right to use our data, which would suggest we have an option to take it elsewhere.

DagsBricks

There were some follow-up posts to yours over there. Namely that we as users will no longer have exclusive access to the data or rights to distribute it but Bricklink will have every right to all the data on it's servers and can distribute it as they wish. They're mutually exclusive because they are referring to different parties. Paragraph 7 has to do with user generated content, paragraph 8 refers to our obligations with that data.

But the main point is that they are trying to limit the BL sync feature.

http://www.bricklink.com/messageThread.asp?ID=158121

Brian

brickreservoir

It was only a matter of time imho. Having a brickstore type app that could talk to both parties could make it easier on inventory but still doesn't solve for the catalog

theHellmouth

Could admin comment on his situation? Only he has a clear view on how much impact this has regarding the Owl. The catalog database here must be different from the BL one, that's for sure, I've noticed it with inventories that were present here and not on BL. Was there an active catalog sync going on before and is this now stopped? Or was it never set up?

Lawrence

Well, that's interesting. That appears to specifically relate to inventory files, but at the same time, includes everything. It reads more like a Non-Disclosure Agreement to prevent people talking about the website.

It would seem that you could still use Brickstore to download your inventory, and then use the BSX file in the BL Sync feature. However, they can write whatever they want in their TOS, they already have a clause saying they can delete your account whenever they want. They could easily add a clause saying "If you use any other Lego websites, we will suspend your account" so attempts to continue using both websites may result in a TOS arms race so to speak.

As far as Brick Owl is concerned, we intend to stick around for the foreseeable future. Even if all the stores decided to close up shop and try sticking with BL, I'm very pleased with what has been developed and would still use it for our own store. Although we do hope it does not get to that stage :-)

minithingsforlife

I could see this coming I'm afraid. It is really the BL Syncing that is being targeted by these changes. BrickOwl can survive with removing the BL syncing from its website, but it was a good way of attracting sellers. I for one decided not to use the Syncing because unless it is real time, I can see it causing me problems.

Reading between the lines, I would guess that any new website developed by BL will not come with a free to use API. This is very frustrating as I intend to have both stores and was hoping to have one central stock system with both stores updating that.

Nathvw

For what my opinion is worth as a small scale start out seller.

Brick Owl made me consider selling on the Lego marketplace with how the site is set up and how user friendly I think the site is both to buyers and sellers.

I did start to set up BL store recently to try that out, but I soon lost hope as it would appear you need to be a computer programmer to do much on BL, and I always had the sync troubles playing on my mind.

Surely the items you sell on your store belong to you and you have the right to sell them wherever you want, I cannot comment on the claims to ownership of data e.t.c.

Due to how simple it is to use Brick Owl in my opinion, I am staying here.

Lawrence, you are doing a great job here.

I hope we do not lose stores, but even I can see the difficulties that may be caused by syncing data e.t.c.

Nathan @ BoxerBricks

misbi

There's a lot of ambiguity at the moment, so I've asked for some clarification in the first instance:
http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=756307

Presumably, if one managed their inventory offline using their own database, there would be no need to download any inventory data - only upload inventory updates

minithingsforlife

Brickcounter. I think you will find that uploading the data you have downloaded from Bricklink constitutes using that data in a way other than that to run your Bricklink store.

misbi

@minifigforlife: Only if it comes straight from Bricklink. Whereas, If I generate XML data from my own off-line database, it's my data to do with whatsoever I please. Anyone who had such a database ready by October 1st would have no need to download any data from BL. Only update uploads would be required which at the time of writing isn't considered foul play.

Eccohawk

In that scenario, how do you update your inventory with each order that comes in? Manually?

misbi

Brick Owl has an API to access order data directly, so that's fine. BL may need a little more work to parse the order notification emails, since I suppose we won't be allowed to use the orderxml download

minithingsforlife

As I see it, an email still constitutes data sent to you from Bricklink, and therefore parsing it in order to send it to a 3rd party would break the rules.

misbi

Downloading order XML directly may break the rules, but simply receiving an email is quite a different matter as I see it.

Plastic-Paradise

I would be interested in hearing from Thor and see what his opinion here is. It appears to me that because Bricklink has done nothing to fix there issues for the last year and a half and a strong competitor has come along that they are now concerned as it likely will be a while before BL 2.0 is here. I like Bricklink and never considered leaving them and only selling here. I like both as alternatives to eBay. But if they are going to start pulling this garbage then maybe its time to move on. They brought it upon themselves by not getting in gear and fixing the site a year ago.

Maybe we could get in touch with the creator of Brickstore and see if he is interested in working with Brick Owl admin to be able to download our Brick Owl stores the same as we do our Bricklink stores and be able to exclude info such as Bricklink ID since that is really all that is used. The inventory is mine and not theirs, we don't use their images, so if we have our own ID system we are within the TOS correct?

Also, it seems to me another one of the main issues is the use of their ID numbers. Is there maybe a way to not include them in this catalog? I was under the understanding that they were kept just because that's what a lot of the community knows the parts by. Maybe the Owl can create their own ID system?

It will also be interesting to see them go after eBay since you can search most of their ID numbers on eBay and find what your looking for.

Gary

DagsBricks

It will also be interesting to see them go after eBay since you can search most of their ID numbers on eBay and find what your looking for.

Talk big to CYA but pick your battles.

Brian

Plastic-Paradise

Indeed. I no longer list there however, I would be interested in seeing them prove that those number on the bottom of the plastic belongs to them. Although I don't see them taking anything to the courts. I figure they will just ban stores.

minithingsforlife

The inventory is mine and not theirs, we don't use their images, so if we have our own ID system we are within the TOS correct?

I'm afraid the data for the inventory is theirs, you keyed it into their website and it populated their database. The physical inventory is yours of course, but recording the quantity you have in stock on their system makes that data theirs.

What I fail to understand is Bricklink's lack of consideration for the seller that pays them the fees to keep the site running. Sellers may wish to market their stock on competitive websites, and the only way of doing this and maintaining stock levels is somekind of free/unrestricted download or an API system. You don't hear Amazon saying you cannot use its API system to update your EBAY or Play.com stock. This happens all the time, because if the marketplace did not allow it, the big sellers would not use their marketplace.

Imagine the scenario of an Ebay Lego Parts seller, who has not used Bricklink and has several thousand parts listed on a spreadsheet which gets updated by some kind of data API process that Ebay provides unconditionally. He then decides he wants to branch out and sell on Bricklink. As soon has he reads that he cannot keep his spreadsheet updated and subsequently update his ebay listings without breaking Bricklink TOS he will decide not to sell on Bricklink.

The only reason Bricklink are using these tactics is that they currently have the dominant market share, and know that most of their sellers do not keep a 3rd party database of their stock so rely on Bricklink to be their stock control system. Bricklink is trying to force not only its sellers to abandon BrickOwl but also BrickOwl to remove its BL Sync option. By doing both of these things BrickOwl become less attractive to sellers. I do not agree with Bricklink Admin's last statement of protecting contributions made by its members. How is the quantity held in my store a substantial piece of data worth protecting for the benefit of Bricklinks members?

I am personally unimpressed by this backward thinking. I unfortunately cannot afford to abandon Bricklink as this is my full time job, so I will continue with two separate stock listings.

DagsBricks

I would be interested in seeing them prove that those number on the bottom of the plastic belongs to them.

I think they are talking about the bb-- identifiers for unknown parts and the -pb- pattern numbers. But the x- unknown part numbers and the -px- pattern numbers are "owned" by either LDraw or Peeron, IIRC.

Brian

Plastic-Paradise

The inventory is mine and not theirs, we don't use their images, so if we have our own ID system we are within the TOS correct?

I'm afraid the data for the inventory is theirs, you keyed it into their website and it populated their database. The physical inventory is yours of course, but recording the quantity you have in stock on their system makes that data theirs.

Actually I don't use Bricklink to upload inventory. It is to slow and takes me to long as I do lots of inventory at once. I use Brickstore to upload my inventory. I do have it in multiple places. I still think getting rid of their ID numbers will get us around it. If we do that we are not using any of their info. Unless of course I am missing something which is quite possible.

Also, this is my job as well so I understand where your coming from. But I don't feel they are going about it in the correct manner. I would understand if we was harvesting their catalog but I don't think we are. We are simply selling on multiple venues. I think it will get more interesting as we move along further. For now I think it is time to change the store name and any similarities to the other site.

Gary

minithingsforlife

I would understand if we was harvesting their catalog but I don't think we are. We are simply selling on multiple venues. I think it will get more interesting as we move along further.

This is not about the catalog. As I said, they are not doing this to protect their members data, they are doing it to discourage sellers from setting up a store here as without being able to Sync it is alot more work.

I agree that their maybe a loophole in what data they are allowed to call their own, but it is irrelevant as they can just turn off the download inventory option if they wish.

DadsAfol

My inventory for sale is mine, not BrickLink's, and even under the revised TOS, I have the right to sell on multiple sites. The key word in their new TOS is "non-exclusive". I think Lawrence has done a fantastic job here, and I plan to continue selling on both sites.

minithingsforlife

My inventory for sale is mine, not BrickLink's, and even under the revised TOS, I have the right to sell on multiple sites. The key word in their new TOS is "non-exclusive". I think Lawrence has done a fantastic job here, and I plan to continue selling on both sites.

You may have a point here. If Bricklink want to treat your stores inventory as data that it owns, the paragraph about non-exclusivity can apply to that data too.

Plastic-Paradise

My inventory for sale is mine, not BrickLink's, and even under the revised TOS, I have the right to sell on multiple sites. The key word in their new TOS is "non-exclusive". I think Lawrence has done a fantastic job here, and I plan to continue selling on both sites.

I agree 100%. I will continue to sell at both venues as I don't feel I am hindering or taking from them in anyway.

Gary

quigley

This is a sign that they are really worried about Brick Owl.

Sir Troys

I think that this has been woefully misinterpreted here. While the wording used is terrible and misleading, my understanding it that they are trying to protect the CATALOG. That is completely different than syncing with other sites, and I saw nothing in there that would prevent me from continuing to sync my BL and BO inventories.

Downloading my inventory is absolutely necessary for me to run my store, and uploading changes is also absolutely necessary for me to run my store. What I do with that information, and how I get the info to upload, is none of their business. I can use BrickStore, the BO sync feature, my own custom database or spreadsheet. they have no way of knowing which I used, nor should it matter to them.

Troy

DagsBricks

I think it was the xml, csv, and tab delimited data bit that got us all a little worried.

Brian

minithingsforlife

Well, I am not sure you are correct Troy. The TOS amendment specifically mentions inventories. And Erics statement further on illudes to it not refferring to Set Inventories as those are like recipes.
I still see the emendments primary target was BrickOwl's BL SYNC function, as they see this is as a seductive feature to lure sellers.

misbi

What is it with BL and communication? Either there's none whatsoever, or what little there is, raises more questions than it answers. Maybe Troy (in his capacity as community overseer) could ask the question directly and have a better hope of reaching the ear of someone who can answer unambiguously. Something along the lines of...

Is Bricklink store inventory download, for the specific purpose of syncing with Brick Owl, allowed under the new TOS?. Yes or No?

@troy: Do you feel you able / willing to ask this on behalf of regular members with an interest in the subject?

minithingsforlife

Troy has now posted on BL, asking if it is allowed to download from BL and upload to other websites in order to keep inventory up to date on all venues.

Well done Troy. I am pleased that you still have that sense of fair play.

misbi

Troy's post seems to have gone unnoticed. I'll give it a second go...

Lawrence

I am also confused as to whether it is referring to the catalog or the inventory, but regardless in my opinion the exception for "when required for the operation of your BrickLink store" would allow stores to use the BL Sync feature. If you have a store on both BL and BO the sync feature is required to keep your BL inventory up to date when orders are made on BO, therefore it is required for the operation of your BL store and seemingly okay under the new terms.

emilewski

If I download BL content for backup purposes or brickstore, which I assume will be allowed, who is to say I am not updating inventory content and keeping the sites in sync manually? How can they prove XML downloads from BL are being used to update BO?

Graham

Be interesting to see what happens IF they close a shop run by a legal eagle!

This is an opinion - I am not a "legal eagle"

How can they possibly claim "ownership" of data (relating to quantity numbers of parts)?

Images yes (if they own the copyright, that is - BECAUSE anything entered BEFORE the change in their ToS would be subject to the original claim of copyright, when the image was submitted)

Text possibly (in the same way this piece of writing COULD be IF I asserted copyrighted ownership ©)
The name and any other trade marks yes.
Probably their indexing system (catalog numbers) could be considered "theirs" as would be the code used to create the database.
However are they going to go after eBay and Amazon for allowing use of the BL nomenclature? OR is this just an attack on BrickOwl?

Names to describe things - ridiculous!

However, I again request:- Please consider switching to TLG's part numbering AND nomenclature, it is more compatible with Brickset for one!

So lets say you download the database of YOUR BL store into Brickstore (or any other inventory management system) it states that it is OK if it is connected with your BL store.
So lets say you create a separate database from scratch in Brickstore etc. and populate the fields with the same stock as your BL store and then upload THAT file to BO.

The data you have now sent to BO was created by you, so now what exactly are they claiming to "own"?!?!

They could make BL2 "closed" - integrating real inventory management - but I doubt that would be a popular move.
When the first hacker attacked BL the FIRST thing that got fixed was collecting seller fees - says it all really.
Then this consultation with BL sellers for BL2 who was invited? ONLY the biggest volume sellers (money earners).

Personally I see a place for both venues (or more) to be viable. What would be nice to see is that big business (re-sellers and toy stores) go with BL, and parts sellers and MoC'ers selling custom SETS go with BrickOwl - BrickOwl primarily servicing AFoL's and such.

As previously mentioned I believe IF you did not allow re-sellers and custom parts/non-LEGO sellers, you may likely receive the unofficially sanctioned status that BL used to have with TLG.

Jazzabell

However, I again request:- Please consider switching to TLG's part numbering AND nomenclature, it is more compatible with Brickset for one!

Definitely.

TheBrickMill

What I find really frustrating is the continued silence over there when store owners ask for answers. Either they didn't expect people to get upset, they don't want to say because that would limit them in the future, or they aren't sure what they meant. The delay in communication really bothers me, it's not professional and it makes me wonder if they intend to continue running the site with the same inattention it has been run with previously.

Nathvw

What I find really frustrating is the continued silence over there when store owners ask for answers. Either they didn't expect people to get upset, they don't want to say because that would limit them in the future, or they aren't sure what they meant. The delay in communication really bothers me, it's not professional and it makes me wonder if they intend to continue running the site with the same inattention it has been run with previously.

All this trouble they appear to have caused recently, and the disappointing reputation I have read about further justifies my reasons to steer well clear.

I am glad Brick Owl is not run like that, I would not be here if it was, hats off to Lawrence.

Nathan.

pumbaugh

I do not think Eric has much of any say left in the way Bricklink is run anymore. I would not be surprised to see him totally removed from BL after/if the new software is ever rolled out. I have not gotten email responses to my last several questions to him. What use is he really when they roll out a whole new system? Would it not be easier for someone from HK to admin it since that is where it is now based? I have been a part of many acquisitions over the years from both sides. Generally old staff is only kept around until all phases have been incorporated into the new company, especially given the international transfer of ownership. I think his silence is either not wanting to answer, or more likely has no idea what to say. I am sure the TOS changes were not something he crafted, obviously done by the new BL LTD. He, himself is probably not sure how to answer the questions being darted at him. It appears evident to me that his interest in the way BL operates has declined drastically since his return from Korea meeting with the new owners. Take this as all my simple speculation, just the way I feel after the last couple months.

Good luck Lawrence and may BO be ever successful!

TheBrickMill

I do not think Eric has much of any say left in the way Bricklink is run ... I think his silence is either not wanting to answer, or more likely has no idea what to say. I am sure the TOS changes were not something he crafted, obviously done by the new BL LTD.

To clarify, I did not mean to target Eric, he does a great job with what he has. I meant the continued "Great Oz" type of presence the new owners have at BL. It is a large enough company that surely someone could post weekly even if just to continue to give the impression that work is being done.

For Eric to have to field questions, especially about the new TOS is unfair to him. Someone from the new company should be announcing and addressing these kinds of issues and then giving answering, even if it is only to acknowledge they are unsure or decline to answer. This kind of behavior will do more damage to BL than any competitor. Instead of worrying about others they need to focus on being the best they can be.

I have completely broken my "only post on the forum if you have something worthwhile to say, and never post anything negative" rule so I'm going to go back to sitting in my corner and being a silent supporter

misbi

The delay in communication really bothers me, it's not professional and it makes me wonder if they intend to continue running the site with the same inattention it has been run with previously.

I expect Admin simply missed my post, so I sent a link to the helpdesk, as I understand that this is more formally monitored than the forum.

figbits

However, I again request:- Please consider switching to TLG's part numbering AND nomenclature, it is more compatible with Brickset for one!

Like, calling normal colored bricks by strange names?
"blue" --> "bright blue"
"brown" --> "earth orange"
"green" --> "dark green"
"dark green" --> "earth green"


I'd say no. It would be fine if that information was stored in the underlying data. But those color names shouldn't be what buyers see by default.

Graham

However, I again request:- Please consider switching to TLG's part numbering AND nomenclature, it is more compatible with Brickset for one!

Like, calling normal colored bricks by strange names?
"blue" --> "bright blue"
"brown" --> "earth orange"
"green" --> "dark green"
"dark green" --> "earth green"


I'd say no. It would be fine if that information was stored in the underlying data. But those color names shouldn't be what buyers see by default.

That would be fine as "underlying data" BUT it is only because most have gotten used to BL's "strange names" - granted the colors you point out are "strange" BUT (again) only because BL came out with their own versions... Why? TLG are perfectly happy with folks using their reference system, color names and database, so why did (I assume) Dan choose different?

best examples would be "light blue gray" vs "mid stone gray" and "dark blue gray" vs "dark stone gray"

without any doubt TLG's color description is best (IMHO)

And please don't get me going on the anomolies in the BL catalog, I have spent many hours looking for wedge plates that appear under "boat", slopes that are under modified bricks, modified bricks that are under wedges not to mention the "black hole(s)" of catagories like fabuland (and "other") ~! LoL
Then part #'s with type a, b, c and d haphazerdly with/without a parent part # - TLG have these ALL with different part numbers, once discontinued, cross referenced to the new mold and part #

For my own projects I buy at least 70% from TLG direct - having to spend hours downloading set instructions to find TLG's part # and/or description and/or color name (I know them by heart now - but in the begining!!!)

I would really like to see a new begining - a clean slate - a fresh start - whatever! unencumbered with all the idiosyncracies of the BL catalog - I feel TLG know their product best!

And last... Brick Owl has a chance to pick up the "unofficial endorsement" from TLG that BL lost a long time ago!

Sir Troys

I think you are making some over-simplified assumptions here.

First, LEGO has not always been forthcoming with information. Keep in mind that BL started 13 years ago, and most of the color names trace back to LDRAW. There was no LEGO "Community Team" at this time, there were not LEGO "Ambassadors" at this time. It was just AFOLS doing the best that they could with the information available to them.

For later colors, it was determined that color names should be accurately descriptive as to the color they are describing. To use your example, What color/shade is "stone" exactly? Without a common reference the names are meaningless. The new grays are bluer than the old ones, which skewed yellow. The names BL used accurately describe this.

As for part numbers and variations, LEGO may have different internal numbers for them, but these are not always reflected on the part numbers themselves. If LEGO does not share (which they have not always done) how is anyone supposed to know these numbers?

As for LEGO knowing best, I am sorry, but I do not agree. I do not know anyone that refers to Tan as Brick Yellow. And I do not know anyone that refers to arches and other curved parts as "bows".

I am not sure what you mean when you keep referring to this "unofficial endorsement" that you think LEGO bestowed upon BL. If LEGO were to give any sort of endorsement, then it would be official. Anything without an official endorsement is by default unofficial. BrickLink has used that term since the very beginning. BrickOwl is also an unofficial LEGO Marketplace. I have not heard of anyone claiming that LEGO has referred them to BrickOwl though. I do still hear from customers that htey have been referred to BrickLink by LEGO.

Troy

BWA

Have been reading this discussion with great interest.
As been new to BO and puzzled/frightened by BL, I didn´t know quite how to respond/participate.
Well here goes....,

A. Data ownership: Apart from the obvious catalog discussion (who owns what picture, color, description etc. (IMHO TLG)). I feel the stock data is ours and it's our Lego we should be able to sell where and when ever (and against any price) we feel like. But maybe they are not only referring to this...., We use BrickStore to update both our inventories (BL and BO) but we determine price by 6 months sales average...., that might classify as BL data might it not?

B.

Personally I see a place for both venues (or more) to be viable. What would be nice to see is that big business (re-sellers and toy stores) go with BL, and parts sellers and MoC'ers selling custom SETS go with BrickOwl - BrickOwl primarily servicing AFoL's and such.

Indeed it is obvious that there basically 2 (maybe 3) types of sellers,
1. the commercial ones (with lots off items, mostly new sets or parted out sets) with 500K+ items. (re-sellers and toy stores). (Goal = profit)
2. the hobby (AFOL) stores with lots off lots, used, but can cater to those missing items..., (max 250K pieces?) (Goal = Financing Hobby).
3. the ones that are in between..... (wondering can I make a living?

As currently belonging to group 2, and looking at both sites (BO and BL) I would think BO is better suited for group 1, and BL for group 2. I say this because BL feels like a real (old) hobby site and BO has a more hip/now feel to it..., (BO feels more commercial than BL (as a buyer)).

C. Communications: From the side off BL, poorer does not exist.... I need to read on BO that BL is limiting data. (hence my post about newsletter), need to search forum for splash page issues etc..., as a paying seller I expect to be informed (without any effort on my part) about developments,
Promises, Promises about BL 2.0 but.....,

D. Value for Money: According to sales you pay x%. A fair system on both sites, but what I greatly miss is what you get back...., apparently your stock isn't yours (or the data there off). When you have a suggestion/question on a forum (not here) you get shouted at etc...., (no value for the hassle).

E. Where did the money go?... as paying (small)seller on BL, I truly wonder where my money went. As it obviously didn't go into site improvements,communications or hardware, and the new owner prob. paid a substantial amount in Goodwill...., and we are still stuck with the 2000 version....?

F. Data Blockage 1-10-2013: Better safe than sorry, We see it as a last chance for major data update/refresh. We are currently developing an external stock/matching tool (*.xls/*.xlm) about which we will keep you posted.

Rgds,

Jeroen & Dorien

Graham

I think you are making some over-simplified assumptions here.

First, LEGO has not always been forthcoming with information. Keep in mind that BL started 13 years ago, and most of the color names trace back to LDRAW. There was no LEGO "Community Team" at this time, there were not LEGO "Ambassadors" at this time. It was just AFOLS doing the best that they could with the information available to them.

For later colors, it was determined that color names should be accurately descriptive as to the color they are describing. To use your example, What color/shade is "stone" exactly? Without a common reference the names are meaningless. The new grays are bluer than the old ones, which skewed yellow. The names BL used accurately describe this.

As for part numbers and variations, LEGO may have different internal numbers for them, but these are not always reflected on the part numbers themselves. If LEGO does not share (which they have not always done) how is anyone supposed to know these numbers?

As for LEGO knowing best, I am sorry, but I do not agree. I do not know anyone that refers to Tan as Brick Yellow. And I do not know anyone that refers to arches and other curved parts as "bows".

I am not sure what you mean when you keep referring to this "unofficial endorsement" that you think LEGO bestowed upon BL. If LEGO were to give any sort of endorsement, then it would be official. Anything without an official endorsement is by default unofficial. BrickLink has used that term since the very beginning. BrickOwl is also an unofficial LEGO Marketplace. I have not heard of anyone claiming that LEGO has referred them to BrickOwl though. I do still hear from customers that htey have been referred to BrickLink by LEGO.

Troy

Hi Troy - first sentence possibly so.

1.First point, maybe in the beginning that was the case, but now TLG are even OK with downloading and printing instructions - which means sellers should be able to include instructions as a pdf (or printed for that matter).
And times have moved on, now with a new venue (Brick Owl) there is a chance to paint a new picture!

2. Granted I am a recent (re)convert and came in on the wain of "old" gray's and brown, however as mentioned (and I am certain I not the only one) most of my purchased parts come from S@H, some TLG folks know BL colors but most don't - ask for Tan you get Dark Tan, "new" grays I see as stone colored, and mainly use them as such. Before these grays there were no "natural" colors for buildings (IMHO), the old grays look too "metallic".

... just FYI the reason I buy most from TLG is all the varying and sometimes rip-off charges on BL, with BO now here, I shall probably buy more of my parts that way

3. Third point when TLG change the mold, the part # changes, and the new is cross-referenced back to the old part #. So types a b c & d all have separate stock numbers (granted they may send the wrong ones if they have old stock still available)

4. No I believe TLG DO know best - they have to keep track of a massive warehouse of parts, they have yet to mess up an order - even when it may be 100+ lots (it is possible).
AND if "Brick with Bow" were the parent category to ANY brick with a curve, life would be SO much easier!

I have not been directed to Bricklink by TLG for well over a year, it used to be "routine" if a part was discontinued customer service would always say something like "you might want to try BrickLink", now they act like they don't know what Bricklink is!

Last time they suggested I try Peeron!

By "unofficial endorsement" that is what I mean, obviously a while ago TLG must have been OK with their reps referring folks to BL.

(BTW) I got this from a manager of a LEGO store in the UK - about 9 months to a year ago they (all employees) were told to NEVER mention BrickLink. So I am quite surprised to hear that you have folks been redirected to BL!

Lastly by switching to LEGO part #'s and colors it would help put an end to BL's claim's in an attempt to shut down competition.

Like I said before my opinions and suggestions, is all, "to be considered" perhaps...

Best Graham

DagsBricks

BL does use TLG's printed part numbers. Not the design number or the color code, but the part number. Since it's the bit molded on most pieces, it's the first thing most people will check for. Having the variations cross referenced to one another is helpful.

Brian

quigley

@Thunor: point no 4 -
What TLG doesn't do is offer for sale every part they ever made in every color, so their task is substantially easier then any site that sells used items. So regardless of whether they know best or not (btw they have made a few mistakes over the years), their task is a different one then that of Brick Owl or BL or even eBay.

Graham

@Thunor: point no 4 -
What TLG doesn't do is offer for sale every part they ever made in every color, so their task is substantially easier then any site that sells used items. So regardless of whether they know best or not (btw they have made a few mistakes over the years), their task is a different one then that of Brick Owl or BL or even eBay.

agreed, to a degree, however a nice link back to "wouldn't it be nice IF TLG customer service reps suggested BO when the part you ask for is discontinued?" at the moment you; or at least I, get "unavailable" - end of story "thanks for contacting customer service"
There is some differing views/experiences but from what I learned and experienced they USED to send folks to BL...

How long would it take to "re-adjust" to Brickset's nomenclature then? That is very closely tied to TLG's.

As a builder it would make my life SOOO much easier with part # matching to TLG (for my orders direct to S@H)

G

Lawrence

@Thunor with regards to lego numbers, they are already on most items on the website. We have both the design ID and the Lego item number (called a PCC code elsewhere)

Graham

I think ive hi jacked the thread - sorry about that - however all I see is design id where is the LEGO part number that is design ID/color (and mold)?

Thanks G

@Thunor with regards to lego numbers, they are already on most items on the website. We have both the design ID and the Lego item number (called a PCC code elsewhere)