Questions about Paypal refunds

Stragus

A customer from Germany informed me that a small order (no tracking, shipped from Canada) hadn't arrived after a month. After a couple emails and a few days, and since the customer had a perfect feedback record, I agreed to to refund the order. On October 18th, the order was refunded through BrickOwl and debited from my Paypal balance.

Just a few days later, the customer informed me that the order finally arrived! (as usual...) Quite pleased with that, I sent an invitation to resend a payment manually by Paypal.

Over a few emails (with minor communication issues, his English isn't that great), the customer informed me that he didn't have a Paypal account and that the refund hadn't yet arrived to his "bank account". No problem, let's wait then! Yesterday, 8 days after the refund and since he doesn't have a Paypal account, I sent a Paypal invoice and kindly asked if it would now be possible to make the payment.

The customer informed me that the payment still hasn't arrived. I can tell he's getting frustrated with this whole situation, and I would like to avoid asking too many questions to better understand the situation. Note that I have no reason to doubt his good faith (he even offered to send me Euros in an envelope).

Does anyone know what happens when you make a refund and the recipient paid without a Paypal account? How should it appear in his credit card statements? Is it a new payment or a cancellation of a 38 days old payment? The customer said that the refund hadn't yet arrived in his "bank account"... Is it possible to have paid by debit rather than by credit card? Should it take that long for the deposit of a Paypal refund to appear?

Thanks to anyone who can shed a little light on this! I don't think I have encountered such a situation before.

DagsBricks

My understanding is that when you use a card, the charge is captured and held for 7-14 days. It has to be authorized by the seller, which is what happens when you accept Stripe and click the 'Shipped' status. If it was via Paypal, it is authorized immediately as part of their setup. If they paid with a card, are you sure it refunded back to their card? It could be that Paypal sent an email to them asking them to log in and claim their refund. That email was either ignored or caught by spam filters. Log in to your Paypal and check on the status of that refund. Is it pending or what?

Stragus

The refund sure looks completed to me. It also looks like a fee was charged on the refund! Doesn't it usually refund the fee, instead of charging it again?...

OvertheBrick

I would call Paypal, they are often helpful.
Note that when you see completed on your side it doesn't mean that the payment has been processed on the other side. I had couple issues recently with payment been put under review for not specific reasons. This is not visible from the side sending money.

Hoddie

PayPal will refund using the exact payment method - so if they paid by Credit Card, he won't see the refund in his bank, only the next time he sees his credit card statement. Regards the fee, PayPal always charge a flat fee on every incoming commercial transaction, even if you later refund - the buyer gets a full refund regardless, but you, as the seller, still pay them the flat fee (€0.35 in Europe I believe, not sure about North America).

Stragus

@Hoddie I would also expect the customer to be fully refunded and for me to absorb that little fee.

And yet, it says Partially refunded instead of Refunded, with apparently a lower refunded amount. The refund was sent through BrickOwl through the Refund special action for the order's total amount ("Final Order Total US $0.00"). That's not the behavior I would expect for a total refund through BrickOwl...

Anyhow, I'm more puzzled by the refund not apparently having arrived after 8 days, assuming the customer is looking at the right place.

robernat

@Stragus
@Hoddie
Hoddie is correct, if he paid with credit card, the amount wil be credited on his credit card.
Depending on montly 'closure' date of his credit card it can be 2-3-4 weeks before his credit card will refund to his bank account, as they will do so when they make the montly bill.
If he has the possibility to check his CC debits/credits 'online' (I can, trough my bankaccount for example), then at least he should be able to see the credit. If he doesn't have option online, then he will have to wait untill he receives the monthly bill, after that it can still be a few days before the money show up in his bankaccount, as his CC will need to transfer it.

Now, as there was most likely a currency exchange from Euro to CAD(or USD), there will most likely be a conversion fee if a credit card was involved, these conversion might not be refunded, could this be the reason why it says 'partially refunded' ? And where does it say that? On Paypal (I assume *not* on Brickowl?