Clustered products/Superlots/Combined sales

MinifigMan

People will probably say that we shouldn't copy alle functionality from BL, but I feel that a means of selling clustered products is really missing from BrickOwl.

For instance, I want to sell different sets together to be able to sell a complete theme, or a complete line of minifigs/sets. I used that a lot on BL. The way it is implemented there was far from ideal. Here we have the chance to do it right.

Lawrence

I believe it is quite a common feature, they are usually called product groups or collections. Personally I've never used them, what is the aim, to give a discount for purchasing multiple items?

MinifigMan

On the one hand a discount, on the other hand a way to keep sets of products complete and sell a collection at once.

MinifigMan

But just a way to give a discount on a combination of specific products would already be good.

Lawrence

Okay, I've added it to the list for consideration

walstib

I would like it.

Here is my in store example of something I want to sell with each other.

bb491

and

bb492

I really don't want to sell this without the battery included, right now I am working on hope it does not happen.

Can I make a custom set to do this or is that too close to a set TLG would make? I was also thinking of making my own "service packs" and wondering where the line would be, if any.

Thanks

Joe

Sir Troys

I would also like to see this implemented, but hopefully we can come up with a more elegant system for grouping the items. The system on BL works, but is cumbersome and far from intuitive.

Not sure HOW to improve it, just that it needs improving.

FYI: This was added at BL so that sellers could sell things such as windows and glass and left and right doors together without having to add an infinite number of color combinations to the catalog.

One of the issues of concern with the implementation is sellers who will game the system to get listed higher in search results by manipulating the prices of the individual items in the group. For example, if I was to group 16 minifigs from series 10 together, and then set the price of 15 of the figs to 1 cent and the 16th fig to $120. I then gain an advantage on 15 of the listings, and this does nothing but piss off buyers.

Troy

Lawrence

With regards to the point on gaming the catalog, I would probably implement this as some sort of custom lot that is only in your store and not in the catalog at all. But it will need a lot of thought on implementation still.

@walstib there is no line, only my arbitrary opinion, I do not like the idea of putting those two items together into a "custom set" that would be in the catalog.

MinifigMan

I saw that 'trick' on BL very often, but I think sellers only scare away customers with it. I would never buy anything at a shop that used that kind of tricks.

Graham

When I was selling sets of CMF's on BL I divided the total I wanted to sell for by the number of figs so I wanted $80 for a set of all 16 they ended up at $5 each - bound to a "superlot", so yes some would appear to be "cheap" and others "expensive".

In general I like to be able to bind lots.

Especially paired parts which I wish would be an automatic option when parting a set ie Cannon and base - I have a load of bases which no one will buy! (Because they were shooting canons i imagine - someone replaced their non-shooting ones)

Well that "trick" you mention, puts that store on my least favorite list straight away - regardless of wether or not I was intending to buy from them. You know if they trade like that they are likely dishonest in other ways too, so I think they end up "shooting themselves in the foot"

On that do we have the ability to "like" or "dislike" a store here on BO?

Graham

walstib

there is no line, only my arbitrary opinion, I do not like the idea of putting those two items together into a "custom set" that would be in the catalog.

Thank you, no worries.

Neat that doing the @walstib gave me a notification.

Thor

Yes, this is needed. And my suggestion is to set it up so that there is one collective price for the grouped items as a whole. By doing away with individual prices, you eliminate the opportunities for some to game the system by pricing one item in the group very low and all the other items high.

The way I see this could be most often used is for paired right and left wedges and wedge plates. Set it up so that the system shows only one price for the PAIR, rather than individual prices for each left and right part. The same system could be used for windows with glass and doors with frames. The price of the PAIR of items together is the only thing that matters.

Thor

Graham

Yes, this is needed. And my suggestion is to set it up so that there is one collective price for the grouped items as a whole. By doing away with individual prices, you eliminate the opportunities for some to game the system by pricing one item in the group very low and all the other items high.

The way I see this could be most often used is for paired right and left wedges and wedge plates. Set it up so that the system shows only one price for the PAIR, rather than individual prices for each left and right part. The same system could be used for windows with glass and doors with frames. The price of the PAIR of items together is the only thing that matters.

Thor

That is a great idea, I think it solves all the issues

MinifigMan

So the parts or sets of a combined lot show up on a search of one of the parts or sets, but would not show an individual price. That would be good.

What price would be shown then? Showing the total would render it at the bottom of al listings.

Thor

Make paired items a separate catalog entry. The pair itself is the entry. If you are selling the group and not just one part, that one part should not show up in search results for the simple reason that it is not available to be sold individually as that one part.

Thor

MinifigMan

How would you ever find it then, apart from browsing shops separately?

Maybe offer paired items of part A and B as a separate tab under searches for item A or B.

MinifigMan

b.t.w. a system should not only 'pair' items, but also build collections. For instance a complete set of collectible minifigures or a complete theme.

Lawrence

My intention would be for stores to have the custom lots only in their stores, and not advertised in the catalogue. In my view, every store is independent and the catalog is just one of many ways that they can get sales.

Thor

You search for the pair. Not for one half of the pair. When a seller lists the left and right PAIR of wedges for sale, he is NOT selling only the right or left side. He is selling both as a combined pair. Therefore, his paired listing should NOT show up in searches for just one of the parts that make up the pair. Again, the single part is not being sold by this seller, only the pair. So why should his listing show up in search results for the single part? A part he is not offering to sell you? His listing will only show up in search results for buyers looking to buy the PAIR or group. So we need to have a separate catalog listing for obvious or common pairs or groups.

Thor

bluedragon

I don't know about other stores but I sell a lot of wedges separately (only left or only right). There is no reason to sell combined pairs exclusively, in my opinion.

Thor

You can still sell them separately if you want. Make catalog listings for each individual part as well as the pair. As the seller, you get to choose whether to list and sell them individually or as a pair. No one suggested that you sell only combined pairs exclusively.

Thor

MinifigMan

During the course of this thread, my suggestion has been shifted from a way to sell multiple sets together, to a way to combine parts that belong together. That's fine (a good thing to have), but not what I was suggesting.

I agree the BL system is not perfect, but search is the main way people know what shop has which products. Maybe, if admin has no intention of making combined products searchable, another way to achieve my suggestion is to be able to put a discount on a combination of products.

So on the product page of product #1 is a message that there's a discount available if you combine it with product #2 and #3. Now they're searchable and can be bought separately.

Graham

During the course of this thread, my suggestion has been shifted from a way to sell multiple sets together, to a way to combine parts that belong together. That's fine (a good thing to have), but not what I was suggesting.

I agree the BL system is not perfect, but search is the main way people know what shop has which products. Maybe, if admin has no intention of making combined products searchable, another way to achieve my suggestion is to be able to put a discount on a combination of products.

So on the product page of product #1 is a message that there's a discount available if you combine it with product #2 and #3. Now they're searchable and can be bought separately.

That may be so (to a degree) - BUT there really needs to be a way of selling paired parts as well, wedges may not be the best example of "pairs"

but glass/window - optional would be best
- hand cart/wheels - what use is a hand cart with out the wheels - you'll never sell it without!
- cannon/base - this one I got stuck with many bases
- both parts of hemisphere (globe)
- shark+jaw - this one who would want the shark without the jaw?
- bucket with handle - what would do with just the handles?

MinifigMan

True, those should be searchable too. In BL this isn't a superlot, but 'complete assembly' that has a separate catalog entry.

Graham

The problem there is that whoever makes any given inventory often times do not give the option of alternate "complete assy" v individual parts - or at least that is my assumption as I part sets into BrickStore, checking alternates before I upload - I suppose what I should do is go find the complete assy rather than "binding" when I come accross this...
It doesn't happen often tho - so I guess its not a biggie

quigley

The separability of catalog items is a HUGE issue, and needs much thought by those whoe are designing a site such as this one. This issue was NOT well thought out from the beginning on BL and remains a real problem to this day.

After years of trying to deal with issues related to this on BL, I am very firmly opposed to "assemblies" of parts (be they paired ever so intuitively) being included in the catalog. Of course, an enormous number of them are already present here due to compatibility issues.

Every "assembly" is a duplication of catalog space, and making these available for sellers to use has the effect of splitting the listings. So instead of having, say, 100 listings in 20 countries, we now have 75 listings in 12 countries, and another 25 listings in 8 countries, limiting the site's listing strength for the part. Of course, buyers can work around this by putting both the assembly and the individual parts on their wanted lists, but that is tedious and I am convinced many buyers do not do it - they just perceive that the site has less to offer.

Why not instead make an EASY way to pair or group parts in one's own store to one's own selling preferences? This of course is the "superlot" function on BL. People always complain about it being awkward to use (I personally do not find it so), but it works perfectly to give items maximum exposure to the buyer, with the flexiblity many sellers want.

If we can avoid having assemblies in the catalog, it would simplify so many things about the set inventory system, and would solve the problem of where to draw the line on what is a "common" assembly and what is not. The catalog will also run faster and be easier to browse.

Please consider this idea or some other workable plan, instead of going down the unsustainable path of offering a catalog entry to everyone for everything.

DagsBricks

Here here!

Brian

Masterbuilder1

With some parts I think it is occasionally needed, the superlots we use on BL are with Used Bionicle Head Connector Block 3 x 4 x 1 2/3 and Brain Stalk. We can not separate them and so list them together, but I can not believe they would be found by a search if they were not link to the single entry / part number.

Alison

DagsBricks

http://dagsbricks.blogspot.com/2013/06/lego-tricks-removing-bionicle-brain.html

Brian

Masterbuilder1

Thank you, we will give that a go

MinifigMan

@quigley: your explanation makes perfect sense from a shop/sitemanager standpoint. It's very structured, and obviously catalog size is very small.

But as a customer I want to search in the catalog for a complete assembly (e.g. a crocodile, a bicycle etc). It is a very poor shopping experience if I have to search for the crocodile tail, find 90 shops, having to visit most of them to see if they also have the body and mouth pieces of the crocodile. Comparing prices is virtually impossible that way.

quigley

@MinifigMan: Of course I am speaking from an idealistic standpoint, and there will always be exceptions. One big exception would be minifigs themselves (who could imagine a Lego commerce site without them!). But they are actually just an assembly, made special by the fact that they are so heavily traded. And to extend minifig status to other Lego "beings", such as animals, is a natural thing, too.

But there is a difference between selling a whole Lego "character" and making a catalog entry for right and left wedge plates. So care must be taken to draw the line somewhere in the midst of those two extremes.

There is a also a natural tendency for things to be sold in bigger and bigger batches, and if this tendency starts to dominate, it will become harder and harder for a buyer to place an order for just the parts they want. So, yes, there are definitely buyers who will want a whole crocodile, but there is also segment of "replacement part" buyers who just want the tail.

@Masterbuilder1: Parts whose state is permanently altered would certainly be another exception for any site where used parts are sold. This includes stickered items, many wheels and tires, and any number of bizarre situations (like the one you mentioned with the Bionicle parts) where it is just best to leave the parts assembled.

walstib

I really don't want to sell this without the battery included, right now I am working on hope it does not happen.

Well, it happened. Forgot to take them off here until something was worked out.

That was my only one so I am in no hurry now, still looking forward to something for restocking.

Joe

Lawrence

It's probably a bit late now, but in the interim, can you price accordingly? So, if you would sell two items together for £1 and one of those items is desirable, and the other isn't, can you list the desirable item for £0.99 and the other for £0.01? After all, the foundation of a site like this is allowing people to buy just that one part they need.

walstib

I hear your points. For more of my context.

I figure the buyer may not have know one part needs the other to function, I did not consider they already had a battery. I now feel it's my duty to make sure the buyer understands and does not get half a product in one shipment.

There are odds that if I had the battery a greater percentage off retail than I did the display it would have sold at the same time. I try and use as little mathematical gymnastics as possible so everything is right there for people like me who do the math on everything.

Because of the source I have for these and my ability to meet or beat USA retail it complicates things past that being the only issue.

To maintain a stock level by purchasing one half at retail would raise my prices and slow inflow of other items.

walstib

I now feel it's my duty to make sure the buyer understands and does not get half a product in one shipment.

If LEGO sold just these two together as one set as well as individually for the very reason you spoke of, my life would be easier.

Lawrence

Righto, I hadn't thought about the issue of customers not realising they need both, valid point.

I guess additionally I need a general relationship for that kind of stuff that will show up in stores. Item A is usually bought with item B etc

walstib

As an update, the customer did know about and wants the battery. Just needed more time and acted on the first planning a second order. So like normal it will all work out in the end.

In a couple days I have the perfect candidate for an order merge. Could be using a reservation option here in the mean time.