Feedback system

brickfeverparts

My apologies for going at the FB system, but this isnt working for us.

We encountered 2 negative feedbacks today (from one person) and the system doesnt allow us to do the same.
(no, i dont believe in fight anger with anger, but to have no option at all is something hard to digest for me)

In this scenario the buyer didnt even pay for the orders, only when we cancelled one of two open orders, after two reminder emails with ofcourse no reaction what so ever, we received negatives on both orders.

Seriously? How can one leave a feedback at all before a transaction has even take place?

We suggest feedback can only be given after the order reach a certain status, like:

Paid
Shipped
Received
etc.

Before this status, well, no need for feedback if you ask me.

Now is this on a mental instable moment for me, as this person did the same to us a few months ago on another selling site.
there the buyer has been banned with over 20 accounts, go figure.......

I am quite confident Admin helps us out on this, but it is not a long term solution, as this costs many energy......

George.

robernat

I voted 'yes' on the suggestion, not with the intention to get the ability (as a seller) to leave 'non' positive feedback (regardless whether neutral or negative), but 'yes' to the fact 'something' needs to be changed in the long run (and no 'pressure' as to 'when').
@BrickFeverParts
For starters I noticed about an hour ago you have no longer a negative, so I assume Admin already 'judged' on it... just as he 'judged' on my case a couple of days ago...

Fact remains that at this point 'no' feedback system is 100% 'decent', neither the 'fleebay' one, neither the BL one, neither the Brickowl one, and neither some other ones I've encountered the past few years.

At this point, I think the BrickOwl one is the most simple one and by far the most honest one, the only inconveniance is that Admin has to deal with each case individually, and he has to rely on the information given by the users, but he has still the ability and mor important: the 'will' (even if taking up his 'time') to judge on each case because he 'knows' most of his sellers (or their credebility they have). In the long run this is not workable (IMHO), particulary if the number of users increases, and even more if the number of transactions increase to a point it would take a 'full time' to go over it case by case (and in the most logic sense seeing the growth, this will happen, sooner or later).

Is the BL system perfect: no, the past 6 weeks I did not leave feebback to 2 sellers, after they did an OCR (without consent), reason: I fear the retaliate feedback from them if I decide to post neutral or negative. Would this be a problem on Brickowl: no, not at all, in a case like this, as a buyer, I would be fearless, is that the ultimate solution: no, the BL system forced me to communicate with those sellers. Would I still leave a neutral or negative? In one case 'no', it was clearly a mixup of a less experianced seller, in worst case I would leave a neutral, but most likely I wouldn't leave 'any', the other case: yes, at least a neutral, and after reading his replies and the final result (stoplisted -not that I mind, as I wouldn't have gonea back anyway-) probably worthed a negative...
Is Ebay perfect: no, as a seller I can't even leave 'non positive' feedback if a buyer doesn't pay..., I can't do that here either, but at least I can file a 'non paying buyer' and I can see immediate result on the buyers account (it is mentioned in the buyers name overview), something that is not even possible on fleebay, buyers can do that over and over...

Fact also remains the % of Feedbacks 'given' by buyers is quite low (less then 40%, for many sellers even below 30%), this causes an immediate and very visible effect if a non positive is received... While on other sites the FB% is like 80-90%, anyone with a decent amount of orders would 'quickly' grow and an occasional neutral or negative wouldn't hurt that much. If I take myself as an example, the occasional neutral or negative on BL would only stay on the first page for a couple of days, here, with even more transactions it would stay around for a week or 2 on the first page, due to the low amount of FB received....

So from my point of view, there is clear reason to review the whole FB system, and if it implicates a whole lot of parameters need to be 'fulfilled' (either side), then yes I think there is an need to review the whole FB system (not only here BTW), does this need to be done 'right now', here on BO, no, I see no reason, as long as Admin is able to 'manage', but there will be a day this will not be workable, and by then I do think something 'will' have changed, but I see no immediate 'urge', as clearly there is no high 'abuse' from the buyers side.

@BrickFeverParts
Sorry to hear you got some sour feelings on the recent events George, and I know (and just lived it) 'nothing' is perfect in this regards, but as you can see, you can enter the Weekend with a positive feeling this was 'already' dealt with by Admin, so as long we can rely on his fast actions and fair judgement, we can start the next day with a positive feeling :-)

Stragus

I think a customer who doesn't even pay for his order should not be allowed to submit feedback. To begin with, an order without payment doesn't even quite exist, does it?

A customer could report a Problem with a transaction before payment was acknowledged by the seller, but he should not be able to leave feedback.

robernat

@Stragus
An order that doesn't get paid for DOES exist, in the end it will need to be canceled, and items will need to be relisted, so the seller has some work on it, and between the time it was ordered and canceled it also has taken the sellers time (check for payments, sending reminders, etc), so it's IMO a wrong point of view to say such an order doesn't quite exist...

brickfeverparts

Thanks RobErNat and Stragus for your inputs and thoughts on this.

Let me say first that i am pleased and impressed by Admins willingness and help on several points, since we came to BO he has been helpfull and available at all times!

I also agree this feedback thing does not have or need a quick handling to it, but in the long run i believe some adjustments can be made. FB systems are Always difficult to create as a good working system for both sellers and buyers, and i do agree on the route it is now in BO.

However, before an order has been paid for, a buyer should not be able to give feedback, he should however be able to file for a problem with this order, for example if seller is not responding or didnt put the order on paid if not paid via PayPal.

If we did something wrong and neglect to fix it, ofcourse we need to get a negative. I just would like to see some actions on sellers side to also show our negative feelings with a buyer or order in stead of only giving a positive, but i do understand this is fine line to cross....

As you mentioned quite right RobErNat, the risk of spitting negs to one and another is huge, once received a neg, the other side will respond with a neg, wich isnt possible. In only very small occations both sides are able to place a neg fb. If EGO's left out, normally only one side should be able to place a neg..... I know my EGO is in the way of many things

Thanks again, specially to Admin, to put up with my EGO and fix these things manualy!

Cheers, George

robernat

Speaking of feedbacks, I just realised I need to do something :-)