Popular stores on front page how/why?

Graham

@Admin - I really feel it's time you reveal the formula on how a store becomes a "popular store" and how the ranking is obtained - or more preferably remove it - for reasons I gave way back.

I cannot see any way how a store with 74k parts is outselling the "big guys" with 1m +

If you wish to keep it I think it could be made a useful tool for stores to see how they are doing and/or how they can improve.

I do not feel that it is a good policy having an unknown set of metrics to anyone but yourself, I respect that this is your place, and please don't take offense - I just wished to voice an opinion

Thanks

Stragus

I think that store with 74k parts is processing a *lot* of orders. If his rate of feedback per order is similar to mine, he must be shipping about 15 orders per day.

I'm not sure why he gets all these orders, I don't see fantastic prices in my wishlist hits, but good for him.

OvertheBrick

I don't know what is the magic formula but I am happy with it

If I were to guess I think it is mostly based on the number of sales. I do have fairly low prices and no store minimum so I have a lot of small orders. I have crossed 350 orders over a 30 day period last week for reference maybe one of the bigger store can chime in for comparison.
Note that my inventory is low not for lack of trying to grow it. I do part out close to 2k parts a day if my estimate is correct.

budgetkids

My belief is it is based on the prior month’s sales. We have been doing extremely well recently with orders. Then we made it 5 up from the bottom on the list. We are still doing well but not as well as the past month for number of orders. Right now we are last on the popular stores.
It may be a weighted metric as @Admin mentioned in the past, but from what I see it deals mostly with the prior month’s number of orders.

Chris

Jiries

The more stores opening here the more less orders for the existing stores that used to do well. I wonder if Bricksy from BL who does get up to never ending raging 150-200 orders per week do come here then it will severely effect other stores order levels.

Stragus

The more stores opening here the more less orders for the existing stores that used to do well.

I don't think that's accurate... In the past year, many new stores have opened, including large ones, and our rate of orders per week has gone up. Clearly, a marketplace with more sellers also attracts more buyers.

brickfeverparts

I agree Stragus, the more sellers means more parts

theHellmouth

The formula is based on much more than only sales. I strongly feel these factors also influence the top list:

- number of page views
- number of carts
- number of carts actually being converted to an order
- number of feedback
- number of orders

A new store that comes in will have a lot of page views as people are exploring the shop, hence more carts and more orders. Naturally being high on the top list already gives you more page views, carts and orders anyway, so it has kind of a snowball effect.

Our shop has climbed to number one position last month because we had a steady influx of newly added items, causing more page views and orders (about 300/month, both small and large). Last two weeks we dropped to number three but we didn't add new stuff for about one week. We still got the same amount of orders weekly but because of the page views we lost popularity. Well at least this is my take on it.

Graham

I still don't see any reason why @Admin won't reveal the formula.

Nor do I see any reason/benefit from having it there at all, as before - my perception of "Popular Stores" leads to the negative perception of "unpopular stores" of ALL stores not on the list…

as a first time visitor I may well feel that all "unpopular stores" are "not very good" to do business with, which of course WE know is not the case!

Whilst I have been up and down "the list" myself - I can attest it has nothing to do with gross sales $ - which have been fairly consistent - with overall growth...

Stragus

I don't think the page views are part of the formula. It's way too easy to abuse and Lawrence wouldn't make such a mistake.

I'm fine with not knowing the formula. Besides, it's probably a little complex, measuring correlations between many factors, even with some e^n if it draws from statistics.

@Graham I guess renaming the list "Most Popular Stores" could favorably alter the perception of said list.

Jiries

I agree Stragus, the more sellers means more parts

It depend how many new buyers are registering at the same time with new store opening. In BL they get around 200-300 new buyers while few stores opening per day.

Lastly is the location v ratio of stores. Not sure how many UK stores in Brickowl but in Bricklink at over 600 is far too many for a small country. In the USA with nearly 2900 stores divided by 50 states that make around 60 stores per state average and each state there are big as the UK. That why many sellers residing there regardless the inventory side, how long they been selling would get a lot or orders.

Hoddie

The population of US is approx. 5 times that of the UK. The ratio of stores to population if the figures you quote are correct would appear to be the same for both countries.

Jiries

Yes and USA is No1 for AFOL buyers follow by Germany then here.

Hoddie

I wouldn't know about that, just wanted to point out that each US state isn't the equivalent of the UK - the population of the US is about 5 times the size of the UK and by your figures they have 5 times as many BL stores. Seems about right to me. US stores have a clear advantage when it comes to price so it still amazes me when I get orders from across the pond. Again I think this is simply down to having the right combination and quantity of parts available, as opposed to having the cheapest price.

robernat

so it still amazes me when I get orders from across the pond. Again I think this is simply down to having the right combination and quantity of parts available, as opposed to having the cheapest price.

Fact is also that for small orders below 100 grams our shippingcost is fairly cheap and is not that much higher then 'national' shipment within the US. So indeed with the right parts, it is no surprise at all...

brickfeverparts

It depend how many new buyers are registering at the same time with new store opening. In BL they get around 200-300 new buyers while few stores opening per day.

Well, the more sellers and parts etc the more hits in search equels more potential buyers...
How you think amazon get big?

Next to that, nothing wrong with healthy competition if you ask me

Graham

Thread has been Hi-jacked!!

OK BL Have several versions of "popular stores" (Featured, Highlighted and Honored)
All categories have HOW that is calculated right under the heading.

In my mind that is the way it should be. I am not keen on the unknown formula, and as per several posts I would rather see that list gone altogether and the "real estate" used be for a better purpose - perhaps featured MOC's?

Also those featured/highlighted/honored stores on BL are not on the home page

@Stragus No adding "most" doesn't soften the negative stigma that may be perceived by a new visitor (or anyone really) if anything it exagerates it… IMO

G

robernat

I really wonder how many buyers actually browse the homepage and whether it makes a difference for them to choose a shop...
A good 'survey' would probably give as result that it's all nonsense ;-)

You can sell 10 orders at $1000 that you bought $900 and therefor make 10x$100 (=$1000 profit) and be 'important' because of the fees paid (assuming it represents a high % in the calculation)
And you can sell 15 items at $200 that you bought $50 and make 15x$150(=$2250 profit) and not reach the list because you paid less fees....
The only realy measurement is 'profit' (recalculated % wise), but since not all sellers use 'my cost' it is impossible to compare....
So IMHO an irrelevant 'show'
The only thing that can be measured are contributions (=points received during a certain period of time), so that should be the only list on the homepage :-D :-D

Stragus

@RobErNat The list is called "Popular Stores", not the "Most Profitable Stores"!

I'm sure there are many factors involved, the sale volume is just one of them.

robernat

@stragus
Quite right, but my post was the next in line and Graham was speeking of BL measurements.
I know on BO it's different, but one could put in in question any factor that is part of the calculation, anyhow it is calculated and whatever the parameters involved.
If I list a Green Grocer, a Market street, a Cafe corner, and a few SW UCS's I'm sure my pageviews will go up quite fast, even if I list them 10x the price they are currently worthed. I'm sure I also will send out quite some 'whislists' e-mails. If on top I would list all my Trains sets at reasonable prices (= low profit) my sales would sky rocket (and I would pay a lot of fees). If I would sell my stickers at purchase prices I'm sure I'll have 500 orders by the end of the month (and pay a lot of fees, while I make no profit). If I request from my buyers they need to leave feedback before I ship, then I'm sure my feedback score will rise fast. If I indicate all orders shipped after 24 h (while in reality it wouldn't be like that) it might influence the score. I'm just widely guessing a few things here, and there are probably other parameters involved and maybe none of the above 'guessings' BUT: 'Whatever' the parameters involved, they can be put in question wether relevant and significant or not. And no indeed, it is not the 'most profitable store' list, but I was only referring to something that 'would' be measurable *if* all sellers would use the 'my cost field' (and lets be clear I would be opposed to such a list anyway), anything else measured might be completely 'off'.

I remember a seller on BL who managed to crawl in the top 10 list a year or 2 ago and stayed there for nearly a year, then all things went sour and the store went broke... Oh yes he was in the most popular list for that whole year, but what nobody knew that he was digging his own grave (matter of speak), so what's the point of being 'popular' ;-)

One of the parameters I've always used to quickly judge a store are BL pageviews devided by number of positive feedbacks as a seller. It gives indication wether the store has decent inventory and prices compared to number of feedbacks received
Ratios of 10-20= excellent, 21-30=Good (average), 31-50=improvement needed, 51 and above= sellers need to requestion completely themselves and their way of acting....
Try it and it works really nice :P

OvertheBrick

I would assume that given the naming "popular store" the intent is not to gauge the store business performance but the popularity of the store with customers

I really think that the main contributor is the number of orders in a given period (if there are any other parameters they are probably strongly correlated to the number of orders). I have seen myself climbing literally as I was receiving the email of a sale.

Regarding profitability I think BO is still a small market place without too much competition compared to BL so there is not a huge downward pressure in term of price. Even though I am on the lower end here I still manage to get some reasonable margins and not a lot of dead inventory (everybody's goal is somewhat different so it is hard to measure success).

@RobErNat, let me know when you start selling your stickers at cost, I have been eying the one for 7905 for months

Jiries

I like to point out that I notice in BL top store listing that I never seen Yellow Farm Bricks store under the name of Rob and Shelagh and they are top UK seller with well over 15000 feedbacks, why they are not on the listing? Quite odd.

Markyd7

I like to point out that I notice in BL top store listing that I never seen Yellow Farm Bricks store under the name of Rob and Shelagh and they are top UK seller with well over 15000 feedbacks, why they are not on the listing? Quite odd.

On here? They're only selling 646 on here.

Jiries

I mean in Bricklink he should be at the listing but not there and never been so don't know why.

misbi

^ High volume of low value orders.

Graham

I really wonder how many buyers actually browse the homepage and whether it makes a difference for them to choose a shop...
A good 'survey' would probably give as result that it's all nonsense ;-)

Hard to say - impossible to know - only Admin knows the number of hits - and yes granted I think in general it's price followed by previous experience with a store that drives sales.

However when I buy from eBay I will choose "highest seller rating" FOLLOWED by best price - as i've had bad experiences following best price. Therefore IF I came here for the first time I would likely follow a similar practice and choose a "popular store" under the falsehood that it may be a better store...

You can sell 10 orders at $1000 that you bought $900 and therefor make 10x$100 (=$1000 profit) and be 'important' because of the fees paid (assuming it represents a high % in the calculation)
And you can sell 15 items at $200 that you bought $50 and make 15x$150(=$2250 profit) and not reach the list because you paid less fees....
The only realy measurement is 'profit' (recalculated % wise), but since not all sellers use 'my cost' it is impossible to compare....
So IMHO an irrelevant 'show'
The only thing that can be measured are contributions (=points received during a certain period of time), so that should be the only list on the homepage :-D :-D

and I agree that "honoring stores" would serve a better purpose, as you and others have put an enormous amount of work in contributions, if this list would serve any valid purpose "as is" then sellers should know how to "make the list" and buyers should know WHAT exactly it means.

YELLOW FARM BRICKS

@JIRIES. We used to be on that list regularly (BL) upto a couple of years ago but it is calculated globally, not by country and the sales on that site are now massive compared to only a couple of years ago so it is more difficult to get on the list. We are not bothered by that, we are making what we want to make, we never wanted to be the biggest and have to register for VAT, employ people, etc... On there, in our experience, being on the list or not does not drive sales in a big way. Here I suspect it might as it is a bit more prominent feature and it is a much smaller market place. We are focussed on giving a good service whilst making a worthwhile margin, not going for medals, trying to dictate how much/how much per lot the customer has to buy, etc. We may however expand our store here at some point too.
Robert

Jiries

Thanks for the respond and explanation Robert. I just mentioned about you other day because I thought you deserve to be on the list due to number of high FB, good service and the biggest store I know as there no UK sellers having up to 0.5m unless I miss something? I think is because of our housing here is very small compare to N America and Europe which many have large houses and basements to accommodate larger inventories.

misbi

the biggest store I know as there no UK sellers having up to 0.5m unless I miss something?

You missed at least two with larger inventories, but then size, as they say, isn't everything

YELLOW FARM BRICKS

@Jiries, you should move up north, you get more space for your money, no further than us though or you'll be up in barbarian's land with brickcounter just across the border (no bias, my Grandad was a Scot but I come form Essex) Thanks for the kind plug though, much appreciated!

misbi

^ LOL - non taken

BTW, a battalion of our barbarians are about to invade, so your inventory will shortly be commandeered to shore up Hadrian's wall :P

YELLOW FARM BRICKS

LOL, a Lego section in Hadrian's wall would look cool but I suspect English Heritage might disagree. We are actually in "no mans land", half way between that wall and what would have been an international border, we invaded your side on Sunday for lunch and met with no opposition

Graham

Careful folks - remember what happened with the ABE (anyone but England) t-shirts? :O

… then there were the SNP shirts )

… then nothing happened...

Markyd7

Has anyone else noticed that when you click on 'Stores' the order changes after about 1 second.
Mines set to 'Items' high to low.
But it shows this first. See image. And then changes.
I wonder if it's total sales or a popular stores list since BO started?
I've been slowly climbing this list.

Stragus

@Markyd7 I believe the list is sorted by account/store creation date, until the page has finished loading.

Markyd7

@Stragus not sure about that as I've been moving up the list. I joined end of July13.

Markyd7

And Bricktakeover has only been a member for 10 months 1 week.

misbi

Log out before loading the page and it won't auto-sort unless you specifically make it. I've always suspected it might be sorted by turnover?

Markyd7

Agreed @brickcounter if I look at the UK stores above me. If I were to guess, that's the order I'd put them in for BO lifetime sales. Turnover or the same popular stores list formula.

Graham

All good info… but… (@Admin) do you have any comment to make?
I mean no harm or offense - I simply feel it right that the formula be revealed…
for benefit of both Stores and Customers, and of course Brick Owl

Or preferably change it to top contributors - I feel they should be recognized rather than "cashing in" points for a brief mention

pumbaugh

I am pretty sure he has commented previously that it was a formula he did not want to reveal. I have no problems with that and I am not on the list.

Badlove

I actually spent quite a few months in the number one spot of this list and at the time my inventory was in the 125k range. Sales were about average for me and I always wondered what I was doing to merit the top spot. I than had to close for a month for back surgery and I have yet to see the top 5 since then. No worries though.

Jiries

Just to note about number of views on my store. Last night someone was in my store for nearly 3 hours with number of view rising solidly up to 600 views before it stopped, then walked away without making a shipping quote to me. I wouldn't though of me going to the store, spend 3 hours filling my cart then abandoned it. In my previous experience on big view rises usually lead a large order, highest was over 1000 views with 3 digit order figure came in.

Stragus

You might still get that order, Jiries. I can easily fill up carts just to see where they end up regarding postage, then come later to complete and place the order. I'm sure many customers act the same way.