Regional division for shipping methods

walstib

I believe this was said within another thread at one point. Having one of it's own seemed good to me.

I would like a way to make regional shipping methods within my country.


Thinking of Canada, at least one for each Province and Territory.

Thor

I agree. This is also needed for US sellers. I am in North Carolina. The difference postage rates in shipping the same package to Virginia versus California can often be more than double.

I think this can be handled the same way we now handle countries. Let US and Canadian sellers set domestic shipping price bands with a drop down box saying which states or provinces it applies to. I would use one rate for East Coast buyers, one rate for Mid-West buyers, and another rate for West Coast buyers, with me selecting the states for each region.

Right now I used average postage rates. Which means my East Coast buyers pay more than they should, I take a loss on shipping to the West Coast, and everything is just right for Mid-West buyers. Kind of reminds me of the Goldilocks story I read to my little girl last night.

Thor

walstib

I don't know how zip codes are stateside, but just the first letter in our postal codes is needed to determine the province.

I'm guessing putting the buyers in the right region for the real time shipping quotes would be the sticky wicket for this being something easy.

Graham

USPS have a total of 8 domestic price bands and 17 international price bands - so y'all in the UK don't groan to RM about the 3rd WW band to AUS and NZ!

Ive got down to 4 international bands allowing a ± of $2 - this I implemented by selecting different countries in each shipping method

domestic I could probably do the same on a ± basis or perhaps even 3 bands

I think the easiest way would be to split the US into States like you have with WW
then similar for other countries like Canada by province?

Does AUS also have several domestic price bands?

I dont imagine any other countries do?

Emporiosa

Reviving this suggestion from the dead. In Canada, shipping zones based on postal codes is really important. Because BrickOwl does not have direct API integration with Canada Post to show rates based on your small business account (like eBay/Etsy/etc do), a single flat rate for the whole country doesn't work very well, especially due to the nature of what we sell (and often the orders aren't very large, so this can be very expensive for the seller when they try to offer a lower rate to accommodate most of the country). From experience here on BrickOwl, I'd say a MUCH higher % of orders with parcel rates are coming from these further areas as they're getting a heck of a deal on shipping (and over 50% of the revenue I get from the sale is covering the extra shipping). This is happening to other Canadian sellers I've spoken with as well that have setup instant checkout shipping.

For example, take a box that's holding a not too big set. Say 1kg 20x14x6". Easier to see the variation with a box than smaller bubble mailers:
From Ottawa to Toronto = $16.05
From Ottawa to Vancouver = $25.50
From Ottawa to Rural PEI = $28.09
From Ottawa to Rural NFLD = $37.55

These are just a few examples, but if you see the really detailed breakdown from Canada Post, it's SO granular. That's why APIs with Canada Post would be ideal for most where you connect your account (Lawrence - I can point you to the information if this is of interest), or, manual shipping zones can be made by us. Similar to doing it by weight or price, etc... Instead we would build our shipping tables based on postal codes (which could be as granular or as broad as wanted by the seller). I can also provide the full list of postal codes (the first 3 letters/#s are what matter), incase it would be programmed a bit like for countries where you create zones and check off the postal codes you want in that zone (this would be the easiest for sellers as well).

Calibrick

Thor, BO is already setup to handle the zoned band pricing. Merely tell the system your zip code's first three digits in shipping setup, then input the rate rate you want to charge a customer based on their band, which is calculated based off of your delivery zip code. I think I have shared shipping settings for this in the US - you can also look at my store's shipping rates tables to see what I mean.

Lawrence

@Emporiosa I saw that some of the prepaid services have simpler regions. Would it be a suitable compromise to split canada into for example 7 zones, and allow shipping methods to have prices per zone? So instead of averaging accross all of canada you could average over a smaller area.

Having zip/postcode based shipping is complex to implement and complex for stores to enter all the information.

Emporiosa

@Lawrence 7 zones would definitely be a lot better. The thing is that "regions" are definitely a key contributor, but so are the postal codes if you have a "0" in the first 3 (we use 6 chars LNL NLN format L=letter, N=number). I'll use an example within my province. A small 50g to Toronto from Ottawa is $9.42, but to P0V 1A0 (also in Ontario), it's $16.07. I've been running into orders of $5-10 from these remote areas where I'm paying more in shipping than I collected for the entire order + shipping because of it.

Back to the 7 regions; this is fantastic. Perhaps group it as Northern (NWT/YT/NU), Western (BC/AB/SK/MB), Central (ON/QC) and Eastern (NB/NS/PEI/NFLD) if you would be pre-defining the zones based on provinces. I would love that one of the "regions" though could be for buyers with a postal code that has a "0" in the start. So a 5th region essentially.

I'd be ok offering a single "average" remote rate for the whole country for all buyers with one of these remote postal codes. It could be just called "Remote Regions" and in the backend, I assume it's some kind of check that it does not on the province, but the postal code to check for the 0 in the 1st 3 characters. Would that work to fit into the 7 proposed zones (total of 5 in this case)? And I can't express how much I appreciate that you're looking into this.

Emporiosa

@Lawrence Also just to show an example of one, order #9118066 - including taxes collected $17.81 (so even less excluding tax), but shipping would have cost me $18.56. The same order to Toronto would be $9.42. Thankfully in that case, I reached out as it fit via Lettermail so I was able to avoid it but they are just an example, and I've seen a lot of these remote postal codes ordering (likely because my flat rate is a heck of a lot cheaper than stores charging the actual shipping amount).

Lawrence

Okay, so just to clarify, with the simulated region shipping, you would still have price variances of in the region of say 9.42-16.07, but that would be less than say 9.42-18.56?

Emporiosa

Yes there are large price differences within a region BUT it's mainly just because of the "0" in the first 3 chars in the postal code. I'm less concerned of variance that's a couple dollars more than the cheapest (so the 4 regions mentioned by province makes it MUCH better already to create averages).

It's just the "0" postal codes (like P0V 1A0 as the example) that jump WAY up. Yes, a remote postal code in a different "region" from me will cost more compared to one within my region (so my example earlier showed $16.07 in my region, and $18.56 in the western region), but I'm less concerned of the variances there. On average, ALL remote postal codes are at least $5-6 in base rate no matter which region you're in.

So if we have a 5th region that just includes every single person with a postal code that has a 0, then I can set a more average rate for the whole country for those with those postal codes like say $16.

Alternatively, if you're open to a bit more granularity, we could use the 4 provincial regions and then within each of those provincial regions, there's a "remote" version of it. So Central Remote could be like $16, and the Western Remote could be $18, etc... (that would make a total of 8 boxes that sellers would fill in for their rates).

Lawrence

Okay, I think I follow. Currently, we have Canada split into

Alberta
British Columbia
Manitoba
Newfoundland and Labrador
New Brunswick
Nova Scotia
Northwest Territories
Nunavut
Ontario
Prince Edward Island
Quebec
Saskatchewan
Yukon Territory

My plan was to use that as the basis of smaller regions based on page 5 of this document here https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/prices/CPprices-e.pdf

So that may not help the issue of the "remote" postal codes. Essentially, what I'm trying to do, is shrink Canada down to just having less than 8 or so zones. Preferably those zones would be done entirely based on the region we already have Canada split into, but possibly could also be done on postcode. The issue with postcode is that it comes from text that the user has entered, so is less reliable than the regions, which are chosen based on a fixed dropdown.

Emporiosa

Yeah like those are already a million times better than just a single flat rate; don't get me wrong. It's just that the remote postal codes are a real thorn in the side. And I've noticed a larger influx of remote postal codes here on this platform because they see that I'm not doing manual rates (because on other sites, I charge for example $15.95 for remote postal codes outside of ON/QC).

But honestly, even this as a starting point with the regions as shown on page 5, is a massive improvement and will be so appreciated.

ATKK

If possible, regions according to the first letter of the postal code would be better. Even the 0 in the first 3 characters does not always work. For example, a K0A 1A0 postal code is not remote, but in the Ottawa region; just that it is a smaller town.

The best option would be to consider the first letter of the postal code. That is how I have been doing shipping and it works well.
The categories could be postal codes that start with AB, CDE, FGHIJ, KLMNOP, QRS, TUVWXYZ.

If not, then the dropdown option:
Alberta / British Columbia
Manitoba / Saskatchewan
Ontario
Quebec
Newfoundland and Labrador / Nova Scotia
New Brunswick / Prince Edward Island
Northwest Territories / Nunavut / Yukon Territory

ATKK

Here is the postal code map.

ATKK

Oops...it did not add the letters to it.
The link is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postal_codes_in_Canada.

Andre

Lawrence

Okay, so I was planning to do the regions as

Atlantic
Central
Western
Nunavut
Northwestern Territories
Yukon

ATKK you mention

Alberta / British Columbia
Manitoba / Saskatchewan
Ontario
Quebec
Newfoundland and Labrador / Nova Scotia
New Brunswick / Prince Edward Island
Northwest Territories / Nunavut / Yukon Territory

Is that latter option preferable? I can do either

ATKK

I would prefer the latter with the provinces. @Emporiosa ??

Thank you so much Lawrence for considering this for us!!

Emporiosa

I'm honestly good with either one from a provincial aspect (the regions vs the provinces as you've split it are already pretty darn close). I still feel that the 0 postal codes are an issue though (and yes there is the one example about the Ottawa region one), but most are very remote. As of writing this, I also just got another order from a very remote NFLD A0* postal code lol (thankfully Lettermail ).

Emporiosa

From a discussion I just had with a seller in SK, I'll lean towards @ATKK's grouping. He mentioned that MB/SK cost the same for him, but BC costs more (and in the CP groupings, BC is with MB/SK).

Lawrence

So, we have split the regions into the below. The next question, what should the fallback zone be? For USPS zones, when we do not know where the customer is located, we fallback to the second most expensive zone (zone 8 of 9). There needs to be some trade-off between showing the customer an unrealistically low price, and an unrealistically high price.

1 AB/BC
2 MB/SK
3 ON
4 QC
5 NL/NS
6 NB/PE
7 NT/NU/YT

Emporiosa

@Lawrence since the price is all relative to the distance from the seller, it's hard to pick somewhere definitive.

But if I had to pick an area that has the least amount of sellers, but also isn't in the north (region 7) which is the most expensive for almost every seller, I think we should use perhaps region 6. 5 and 7, for most sellers, are the most expensive regions (and have the fewest sellers) so 6 is a good medium between those but on the higher end to be safe.

ATKK

Yes, 6 works.

Lawrence

Okay, that's now been implemented if you would like to try that out from the shipping method form. I do need to make it clearer in more places when shipping is estimated because we don't currently know the user's address.

@Stellar I'm aware you also need this for some areas of Spain, we can take a look at that also depending how the Canadian implementation of this goes

Emporiosa

@Lawrence Implemented already! Wow.. lol I'll be getting this setup tonight and tomorrow and will report back on it. Thank-you - truly, from all of us in Canada

Emporiosa

I'm probably blind (edit; yup blind).

I found the zone regions

Stellar

Now Lawrence reads my mind, good!

Emporiosa

Tested trying to setup using price bands (but I assume this might be an issue with weight bands too) - I can't see the "Add" option for another tier.

Lawrence

You should just need to scroll sideways and click on the button

Emporiosa

There is no scroll (I think because my resolution isn't zoomed in). But now when you press Update it's adding a row. Maybe it was a glitch earlier with Chrome if nothing changed (works now though! )

ATKK

I have implemented it too...now just waiting for an order with it to verify.
Thanks again @Lawrence!!!

Emporiosa

Just received my first order for parcel in Canada and it works great, thank-you Lawrence! (of course it was a 0 postal code one as usual lol I might have to tweak my rates).