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Site updates: Button to create 'alternate' heads
Now since messages don't get purged on BO, I feel it as my duty to publicly express my annoyance on this, as future reference for all those who 'think' they can adjust the database, and I'm speaking as heavy duty contributor, not only on Brickowl, but still among the top contributors on BL (allthough hardly any the past 15 mounths).
This button is rubbish...
Not only TLG is switching more and more towards 'recessed stud' (including CMF heads now ** made in China **), so the chances for 'safety stud' heads is shrinking (just a matter of time before TLG runs out of stock), because the molds are not being used anymore.
This button was created to resolve 'errors' in the BO database, in particular in regards to CMF12 heads. I 'tried' to make the needed changes in the BO database (imported from Brickset/Rebrickable **with errors**) so that these heads would reflect the reality: NO Safety Stud heads in the CMF12 series, only Recessed Stud heads, but Admin has decided to 'discard' it all because the pictures (imported from Rebickable and therefor imported form TLG who don't care about molds) are rather showing 'Safety Stud'.
If in the first place, the catalog doesn't reflect reality and the contributors changes would be 'acknowledged' by Admin in stead of 'discarded', they there is no need for a button to create 'alternate' heads. If TLG/Brickset/Rebrickable are showing the wrong version (based on Generic pictures and 'imported' without the slightest verification) and 'contributors' here (and elsewhere) adjust the catalog, then only 'one' version would exist, particulary since TLG seems to use less and less the 'Safety Stud'.
Basicly: ALL CMF12 heads are wrong 'moldwise' in te BO database and the best thing Admin has come up with when I pointed to it (after trying to solve it by spending over an hour to submit changes): quote: I understand your comments, I differ in the certainty that the heads will never be produced in that variation, and as such do not wish to remove the variation.
My reaction on that: Find me 1 CMF head that has been produced in 'the other mold' by browsing the BL database...
You know what: you won't find any ;-)
And it's not like there is lack on contributors who verify stuff on BL... Something you don't even have here...
So it alll resumes to: whatever you try to do to have the database reflecting the reality: don't bother, Admin knows best.
Sorry Lawrence, but right now, right here you are taking shots at your BO database and you'll never be able to convince another 10 people like me to try to make a difference 'catalog' wise if you are not allowing to have changes made in regards to 'accuracy' and 'reality'.
If the sole purpose of Brickowl is to 'have' a database, with all it's wrongnesses, to attract small occasional buyers to spend a bit, fine then just say it, and I will resume to 'act' as a seller to serve those buyers in stead of hoping one day, this site would make a difference for 'collectors' (the bigger spenders afaik) compared to the competition, cause I'll tell you in advance, you'll never be a 'match' the competition, because a website can be as fancy as it is, if the database is wrong, you'll never get the die hard collectors, and even if you get them, soon the'll realise there is a better venue in regards to the catalog, they'll be gone...
Take a post-it and write down in the next 12 months how often that button you just created is going to serve. Then ask yourself the question, after comparing with the reality (= checking the BL database), how many times it was used to cover up for wrongly imported data from other websites, *then* let's talk again...
In general: this site is drowning in the flood of data and while 'over time' the amount of missing data should decrease, it is 'increasing' because there is no structure to make it better... quite the contrary, setting up buttons to resolve wrongly imported data is really not the solution IMHO
This button is rubbish...
Not only TLG is switching more and more towards 'recessed stud' (including CMF heads now ** made in China **), so the chances for 'safety stud' heads is shrinking (just a matter of time before TLG runs out of stock), because the molds are not being used anymore.
This button was created to resolve 'errors' in the BO database, in particular in regards to CMF12 heads. I 'tried' to make the needed changes in the BO database (imported from Brickset/Rebrickable **with errors**) so that these heads would reflect the reality: NO Safety Stud heads in the CMF12 series, only Recessed Stud heads, but Admin has decided to 'discard' it all because the pictures (imported from Rebickable and therefor imported form TLG who don't care about molds) are rather showing 'Safety Stud'.
If in the first place, the catalog doesn't reflect reality and the contributors changes would be 'acknowledged' by Admin in stead of 'discarded', they there is no need for a button to create 'alternate' heads. If TLG/Brickset/Rebrickable are showing the wrong version (based on Generic pictures and 'imported' without the slightest verification) and 'contributors' here (and elsewhere) adjust the catalog, then only 'one' version would exist, particulary since TLG seems to use less and less the 'Safety Stud'.
Basicly: ALL CMF12 heads are wrong 'moldwise' in te BO database and the best thing Admin has come up with when I pointed to it (after trying to solve it by spending over an hour to submit changes): quote: I understand your comments, I differ in the certainty that the heads will never be produced in that variation, and as such do not wish to remove the variation.
My reaction on that: Find me 1 CMF head that has been produced in 'the other mold' by browsing the BL database...
You know what: you won't find any ;-)
And it's not like there is lack on contributors who verify stuff on BL... Something you don't even have here...
So it alll resumes to: whatever you try to do to have the database reflecting the reality: don't bother, Admin knows best.
Sorry Lawrence, but right now, right here you are taking shots at your BO database and you'll never be able to convince another 10 people like me to try to make a difference 'catalog' wise if you are not allowing to have changes made in regards to 'accuracy' and 'reality'.
If the sole purpose of Brickowl is to 'have' a database, with all it's wrongnesses, to attract small occasional buyers to spend a bit, fine then just say it, and I will resume to 'act' as a seller to serve those buyers in stead of hoping one day, this site would make a difference for 'collectors' (the bigger spenders afaik) compared to the competition, cause I'll tell you in advance, you'll never be a 'match' the competition, because a website can be as fancy as it is, if the database is wrong, you'll never get the die hard collectors, and even if you get them, soon the'll realise there is a better venue in regards to the catalog, they'll be gone...
Take a post-it and write down in the next 12 months how often that button you just created is going to serve. Then ask yourself the question, after comparing with the reality (= checking the BL database), how many times it was used to cover up for wrongly imported data from other websites, *then* let's talk again...
In general: this site is drowning in the flood of data and while 'over time' the amount of missing data should decrease, it is 'increasing' because there is no structure to make it better... quite the contrary, setting up buttons to resolve wrongly imported data is really not the solution IMHO
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I'll do a very, very short version:
- BO could use more important updates (just look at the "news" on the front page,I can't stand those keychains anymore
- BO could listen more to its users, and the suggestions they make. Just because something "differs" from BL or others sites, doesn't automatically make it better. Please keep in mind here that BL is build on years and years of experience from users with years and years of experience. Exactly that what caused BO users to change to BL, is at the moment happening here in my opinion. (communication with, and listening to the users)
- If I where BO, I would "hire" RobErNat on the spot, and give him the opportunity to build a catalog that would be (I "know" him a little bit in the few years I have spend on both sites) really accurate. Or at least take his suggestions seriously, and do something with it.
- There was more here
Please keep in mind that I truly want BO to work, and keep working. Maybe in the end even be a replacement for BL (at the moment there is no way I could sell here without using BL, and it's inventory)
Any criticism I make, is because of that. I just don't have the feeling this site is really improving at the moment (and lets be honest, it could use some improvement), and I think that is a shame.
I appreciate your support, but it seems more and more clear to me that my 'ideology' strongly differs from Admin's: while I see BO to be an 'open door' to provide something 'better' for the whole of the community: Details and Accuracy, more options in regards to timelines, this on top of wide search functionalities (and let's be clear BO is on top of the latter), the solutions for Admin are to implement 'buttons' to compensate for what I consider 'errors'...
This site has (technicly) every option to do so RIGHT NOW (not that things have to be done RIGHT NOW, but at least offer the options IMHO), compared to BL, but it's Admin (aka Owner) is more interested in mass updates (aka downloads) then to 'adjust' to 'reality'.
I have no issues with mass updates, I have no issues with mass uploads, what bothers me utterly is the total lack of 1.consistancy 2.acceptance of adjustments to fit the reality.
Basicly the 'interest' of this site is an interest 'for the masses', making money but without to much effort (compared to the effort of contributors) and without the opportunity to 'set things right'.
The community (in particular the collectors) made a site like BL 'the place to be', and while BL's interface might be outdated, the catalog still works, here we see the opposite: BO has a nice userinterface, it is modern and flashy and it clearly attracts a number of buyers, BUT IT IS NOT attracting the collectors (the ones who spend 'most') because of it's total lack of consistancy, the lack of accuracy, the lack of complete inventories (yes Lawrence you download a lot, but if inventories aren't accurate and/or complete, what's the point??), the lack of accuracy (timebased) in inventories then you'll never get the ones who spend 'most' IMHO.
You (Lawrence) may think you're doing well, and yes, this site doesn't run bad at all, but you have no idea on what you're missing if this site would be 'the better place' (catalog wise). I can tell you I spended (being a collector, a buyer, as seller) over 500 Euro last month on Bricklink, and 'nothing' on BO, not because I do not like BO (far from it) but because this site does not attract me to buy due to the total lack of having sellers around that offer me what I'm looking for. Why aren't those sellers around? Beacuse they are 'still' better of on BL, simple as that, and the reason for that is the database, because if based on the utterly outdated interface(BL), they would be here. And with the evolution 'promised' the next few months on BL, I see no reason why they would come here...
My impression is that BO (Lawrence) has the 'intention' to make it a better place, but let's face it, without a couple of die hard contributors (like me) to build the catalog, it's not getting nowhere... And at current pace it's gonna take years and years and years. Formal Admin Dan (RIP) understood one day: he appointed people to run his catalog so he could concentrate on other things...
I have made the hard descision to concentrate on my store, data needed for my store and derivates will be provided, but no longer the efforts to, 'build' this site catalog wise. The compensations (aka Prizes) haven't been *much* the last few months, efforts have not been appreciated the way they should have been, so the only option left for me is to build my store (on both sites), do not be mistaken, my lack of contributions will be noticed (but maube not right away), as I know *what* efforts I did the past year...
My e-mail is 'open' for *any* if things need to be discussed...
Have a great weekend, allready whishing *all* a great end of year (in case I'm not around the forum next few weeks) and a wonderfull 2015.
Cheers, Eric
I don't mind having these debates in the open, though it may feel like washing dirty laundry in public.
There are certainly divergences of vision between you and Lawrence. I can understand Lawrence's position (personally, I really don't care about non-functional differences like head stud types). I can also see the appeal of a complete and thorough catalog for the very knowledgeable collectors. Maintaining such a catalog involves far more work, and I think that might be the main issue.
Let's not forget that BrickOwl represents a huge amount of work, the catalog is just a part of it. On top of that, I think Lawrence has been very busy/preoccupied/distracted by matters outside of BrickOwl the past few months, and that's unfortunate.
Many years ago, I wrote some experiment, some free persistent online game that completely grew out of hands with thousands of players. I know what it is to have to manage a community, write code, fight spam, fix bugs, resolve disputes... Just the daily 20-30 emails were enough to drive one crazy! (that or the alarm that would wake me up at night when a bug was found) I know it's really too much for a single person. I have tasted it firsthand.
So, to maintain his motivation and general sanity, I believe Lawrence will have to start delegating tasks at some point. You are an obvious candidate as catalog administrator, although resolving your differences first would be important. Preferably through a more direct communication channel like G+ Hangouts, Skype, phone or such...
There is huge potential in the BrickOwl community, and it could grow tremendously by tapping into it. Delegating some of the workload is a hard step to make, remember that any creator feels very close and responsible for his creation
Personally, I can't complain about the BrickOwl API. It can take a few days but bugs are fixed (unlike the other place which answers the same day but the bugs are still there 3 months later, darn it!).
Alexis