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Packing sizes for minifigs
How would others like to enter packing sizes for minifigs? Unassembeld?
Example:
http://www.brickowl.com/catalog/lego-unnamed-castle-minifigure-369283
Actual size of fig in builded condition is 26mm x 15mm x46.5 mm = 18.135 cm²
Size in layed down condition (and unbuilded) condition is 35mm x 40 mm x 15 mm = 21 cm², so slightly more volume, and technicly taking more space when BO calculates packing size of an order (but having a little 'spare' ain't bad on the other hand).
@Admin: Your thoughts, ideas or expectations on the matter? It would be good to standardise the method...
Example:
http://www.brickowl.com/catalog/lego-unnamed-castle-minifigure-369283
Actual size of fig in builded condition is 26mm x 15mm x46.5 mm = 18.135 cm²
Size in layed down condition (and unbuilded) condition is 35mm x 40 mm x 15 mm = 21 cm², so slightly more volume, and technicly taking more space when BO calculates packing size of an order (but having a little 'spare' ain't bad on the other hand).
@Admin: Your thoughts, ideas or expectations on the matter? It would be good to standardise the method...
This discussion has been closed.
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That figure you linked to is what I would call a basic minifigure. Someone like Buzz light year would be better disassembled.
But this one would have an actual size and a packing size:
http://www.brickowl.com/catalog/lego-cavalry-soldier-with-backpack-and-brown-eyebrows-minifigure
The backpack can be removed and have an effect on thickness.
So would the packing size need to be in layed down dimension (might save some time when the system calculates and rotates items) and would it need to be like assembeld fig + backpack next to it, or fully disassembeld condition?
The orientation of the dimensions does not really matter, it would probably account for millionths of a second time saving.
Robert
Do you realise that this is what you are saying?
"I think that sellers should be allowed to stick to their personal habits even if that's at the buyer's expense, increasing his shipping costs"
:P
Besides, the odds of this actually being the decisive factor in packing are next to zero. I'm shipping multiple out letter shipments daily for years, so I should know.. And even if a seller lives to see that happen in his lifetime, the result is that the he is forced to assemble the minifig. Oh, the horror!
You make a lot of assumptions, the main one being that all buyers don't have a preference about whether mini-figs sold as 'new' are assembled or not. Well, I'm a buyer and I care, and I know for a fact that I'm not the only one. Secondly, you assume that under-estimating the volume of mini-figs won't cause issues, and as proof you wave your sales in our faces.
I don't know what limits the US postal system imposes but I've carefully prepared my shipping options and shipping materials to ensure that buyers get the best value for money and to ensure that they get what they order in perfect condition. I think it's disingenuous of you to suggest that this is more about enforcing my personal habits on buyers to their cost, rather than trying to get a system that works for both sides.
I know for a fact that the small parcels I use will happily contain 99.99% of all mini-figures with plenty of protection. However the internal volume of these parcels is quite small, so it will cause problems for me if the system is under-calculating the space needed by mini-figs, particularly if some buyers order several in one go as sometimes happens.
Can I suggest a per-store setting that sellers can toggle to indicate if mini-figs are packed assembled or unassembled? If the 'unassembled' setting is selected then mini-fig sizes could be inflated by 10-20% when calculating shipping.
What I don't think is acceptable is imposing a one-size-fits-all system if it's clearly inappropriate. And let's not have the "but assembled still means new" debate again, this is personal preference/opinion and there are no wrong answers.
My summary - buyers sometimes like to specify assembled or not and some figs certainly cost more (in UK and Canada) to ship assembled. We state in the listing the figs are not assembled so buyers know that is how we do it and all our OWL orders are charged at the lower (Large Letter) rate anyway currently.
Robert (who de-cans his worms to save on shipping costs
Let's assume an average fig has a packing size of 20 cm² (25 cm² if not assembeld), the size of a large letter is up to 30 mm, flatsize of 230 x350 mm = 2415 cm² = 120 minifigs, or 96 in unassembeld condition. Let's assume a fig costs 2.50 Euro (and that's quite a cheap one), 96x2.50=240 Euro. Would you really ship that many minifigs in a padded mail ? Answer: NO, actually in most cases, more then 15 minifigs would most likely require a package with track and trace, so size doesn't play a role, ANY quantity below 15 (even if combined with parts) could go in a padded mail, but there would be plenty of volume to do such (regardless wether a fig has a volume of 20 or 25 cm²). So I agree with Teup on this, the chances an order with plenty of minifgs would not fit a pre-defined volume are quite slim... And any smart seller would use a package with tracking if the value becomes too much, so sizes of minifigs wouldn't play a role anyway in such case.... I think some people are nitpicking...
I see it as if they have the option to fill in the data and use the data, they really can't complain about it. They will only get out as much as they are willing to put in.
Ok, back on topic. I'm sorry I sound harsh, and I will continue to sound harsh, but don't be a pussy :P I'm not harsh, I'm just on topic and no-nonsense
You might prefer disassembled figs, makes sense, but I find it extremely hard to believe that there is a significant portion of buyers that would pay extra for that. If you insist on this, we could start a poll, I could start a poll on a LUG forum, but I expect it will be difficult to find people who want to pay extra for a disassembled minifig (let alone some €5, which is a reasonable difference between airmail vs package). You argument is that this system should be personal preference, my argument is that the seller's personal preference is inferior to the buyer's interest.
And let me repeat again: we are discussing the scenario in which the shipping bracket hinges on whether or not the minifig is assembled, which is a very rare scenario. The difference in volume of an assembled minfig vs a non-assembled minifig are very small and well within the error ratio of the entire system to begin with. Keep in mind that the system assumes all items to be opaque boxes, whereas in reality they have a lot of sloping sides, crevices, openings, etc. If anything, this will cause the auto calculation to be off way more than assembled vs non-assembled.
And in fact, for the minfigs I can think of right now, the assembled form will take up more space rather than less. So, I am merely trying to point out to you that you protest against something that will in all likelyhood never actually come to form a problem during your life, and when it does, the consequence is only that you will have to assemble a (few) minifig(s) for 1 time only which you prefer not to do. Risk analysis-wise I'd say we can conclude it's insignificant.
You also assume that the constraints that US sellers have to live with are the same constraints that non-US sellers have to live with. This isn't the case at all. In fact I think it's reasonable to assume that the EU market is quite different to the US market, certainly in terms of price, shipping methods and buying habits. You seem to be saying that because the current method works for the US shipping constraints you have to work with, that the rest of the world should make do regardless how it works for them.
And like I said, if the differences between 'assembled' and 'unassembled' are so minor as to not cause any seller any inconvenience, why can we not live with the 'unassembled' measurements and then everybody wins?
Look, I'll put what I read in your original post down to the fact that English isn't my first language and I may have read something that wasn't there, however, you'll never convince me that I or any other seller should put up with a particular system just because it works for the majority.
I've already suggested any easy to implement system that negates the need to carry several different dimensions. Simply give sellers a toggle to show whether or not they sell new mini-figures as assembled or unassembled. If a seller doesn't assemble them, when calculating shipping volume, simply increase the assembled measurements by a set amount, say 15%. Sure, this isn't perfect either but it's a better compromise than simply saying "sorry, it works for me so you'll just have to live with it."
Edit to add: Your claim that most buyers wouldn't pay a premium for unassembled figures seems to be related to your claim about constraints in the US shipping options. Fine, that's fair enough, but I never claimed that buyers would pay a premium for unassembled figures, just that many buyers would think that 'new' equals 'unassembled' and would prefer to receive them that way.
We could do that, I'm fine with that, because the error margin it causes is very small an acceptable. However, we already established you do not accept that as an argument in this discussion..
- A seller, in your opinion, is allowed to stick to having figs the way he prefers
- This will potentially cause higher shipping costs for the buyer
- When that seller's preference is not the same as the buyer's preference, the buyer has paid for something that he did not want
- In my opinion this is not acceptable
That's why I say: Sellers should not be the ones to choose. If your idea is implemented, fine, but on the buyer's side.
Well, I'm gonna stop discussing this topic, not because I claim it's finished and I think I'm the only one who's right and all that jazz, but simply because it will probably never come to shipping costs depending on it, and when it does it's a less than 50% chance at most, that the buyer will care.
Let's put our energy in buying and selling. At least I will
So the argument seems to be that unassembled minifigs (with "packing dimensions") may/will occupy a bigger volume than what they would when assembled, and this would cause shipping to bump to a higher category in some cases.
Realistically, what are the odds? We are talking about cases where a customer would buy >$200 in minifigs and somehow the volume estimation would increase shipping, assuming the minifigs would be used and assembled. Additionally, low-volume (or thickness) shipping methods may not have tracking, and it would be unwise for such an order.
Compared to the far more common case where a buyer grabs a minifig or two (or even 10), having disassembled shipping dimensions will help enormously.
If this is really an issue for some people, this could be fixed by having each minifig (or other assembly) have a toggle flag: does it ship assembled or disassembled? Some customers may even like to see that information.
The rule surely is that Lego is new until it is assembled. But apparently there's an unwritten rule, supposedly accepted by the majority, that this doesn't apply to mini-figs. That's fine, I can accept that, however what I don't accept is that I must sign up to this 'unwritten rule' in order to be able to use a pretty important feature of the site.
I can't put it any better than that.
I never knew people who do not consider assembled minfigs new existed, but apparently they do and I respect that. Maybe there is need of what you say, but repeatedly my point has been that it should be the buyer's call and never the sellers.. especially not if the seller's preference is very likely to deviate from what the vast majority of his buyers want.
The packed dimension + assembled dimension system is perfect. It picks which ever is smallest and goes with that. Now, what you could argue for is the right for some buyers to not accept assembled minfigs as new. They should simply then be allowed to indicate that in their settings. The system sees this and calculates shipping accordingly (that is: never include assembled size in calculation). Problem solved.
It is absolute nonsense that you're making this about me. The unwritten rule you're on about already exists and offers zero choice. The rule is that some sellers (you claim the majority) will send 'new' figures out already assembled. How does this give a buyer a choice? They get the figures however the seller chooses to send them out.
Sellers who ship figures assembled and sellers who ship figures unassembled offer buyers the exact same choice. None. The crucial difference - to me and I'm sure plenty of others - is that some sellers send the figures having already assembled them. In many people's eyes this means they're not new at all, they're used, only they don't find out about it until they receive their order. Even if you argue they're still new, they're certainly not mint. I agree that plenty people won't care but some will. Many that do care probably won't kick up a fuss because either (1) they know about the 'unwritten rule' and don't want to make an issue out of it, or (2) they'll just not order from that seller again, or possibly - worse - not order from any seller again.
If a buyer receives a fig unassembled how can they possibly argue? If they want figures to be assembled to save on shipping (which, given your claim that the differences are so minor as to never be an issue, why would they?) or they want them assembled to help prevent scratching, fair enough, but I'd expect them to make that point in their order note. It makes infinitely more sense for a buyer to have to say "I'd prefer you send the figures assembled" than it does to say "I'd prefer you didn't play with my figures before you send them." But maybe that's just me.
Robert
I can guarantee everyone that shipping figs unassembled IS an issue to buyers. The two main requests I get from BUYERS regarding figs are: 1. are they shipped unassembled? and 2. please take extra care when packing the figs. Granted this question mostly comes from minifig collectors and is always regarding high value new (licensed themes) minifigs.
@Teup: I don't agree that the seller forces his/her opinion on the buyer. So it shouldn't be a buyer preference. If I advertise in my store that parts could smell of smoke or that I don't differentiate molds the buyer can clearly see this. If he/she is not happy with, they can choose to buy elsewhere. Some buyers won't care and can just ignore the setting. Some will have a preference and can choose the shops that have the same preference. The buyer preference shouldn't force the seller to do things different. But I agree that the buyer should be aware of the seller's choice ... hence the request for admin to have the minifig issue as a store option.
If your desires as a buyer and actions as a seller differs from that, good for you, but it won't change a thing on rules, for the simple reason not all sellers do what you do, and some of those sellers have synchronised inventories, any change of 'the rule' wil therefor have an immediate effect of peoples listings, will have an immediate effect on their value, and will therefor generate a whole lot of 'issues' with plenty of sellers, I doubt Admin is willing to take the risk of getting in unpleasent debates with dozens of sellers. Bottom line: sell the way you like to sell, buy the way you like to buy them (but ask sellers first if you are in doubt), but don't expect all sellers to do it your way (and if buyers prefer unbuilded ones, then they'll just have to search the right seller for it), so I think it's quite pointless you keep beating the death horse
My vote: Just assemble the damn thing and get on with it. I is a childrens toy...
(I am of course arguing as a sport, it's a complete non issue and it is extremely unlikely to play out like this, but this was the discussion that was raised and I just join in because I'm too lazy to pick my orders right now
I suppose it's all moot really, given your admission that you're arguing for sport. No doubt this debate was done and dusted after a handful of replies but you've managed to twist what people say in order to illicit a response. There's a word for that, trolling. I thought we were all adults here but seems not.