Help, my first PayPal chargeback!

budgetkids

I just received an email from PayPal saying a buyer (here on BO) has initiated a charge back.

"The buyer claims that this purchase was made without authorization to use
the credit card."

Yet they left me positive feedback for this order and online tracking info says they delivered it. This was their third order with no problems before. This was actually for the charge on a combined order, they have not filled the claim for the first portion of the order, only the second order that was combined. I am at a loss since this is my first charge back.

What are the possible outcomes here? I do not know anything about the PayPal charge back policy and steps that need to be taken.

Thank you,
Chris

Thor

A chargeback is different and more serious than a reversal. While you can defend yourself from a reversal by showing proof of delivery, you have no defense to a chargeback. Even proof of delivery will not help you because the issue is not whether the buyer received the order but whether the buyer even placed the order at all.

By claiming unauthorized use of his card, the buyer is saying he did not authorize placement or payment of this order. Therefore, proof it was delivered to him is meaningless.

ADMIN: When a buyer claims their PayPal or credit card was used without their authorization, you should immediately suspend the ability of this buyer to purchase or at least use that particular card on this website. This is necessary not only to protect sellers, but to also protect the buyer from continued unauthorized use of his card. Buying privileges should only be returned when the buyer contacts you to let you know he has resolved the matter with the card company and that he will thereafter be responsible for all future charges made on that or another card.

Again, unauthorized use is a much more serious (and criminal) matter. It should be treated differently then a mere reversal claim of non-receipt.

Personally, I would very much like to know the username of this buyer so I can temporarily block whoever hacked his card from placing an order with me. If the card is truly being used without the buyer's authorization, the buyer should appreciate any steps taken that would prevent further use of his stolen card.

Thor

DagsBricks

Was this a buyer in Texas? I received one too. When you fill out the dispute resolution thingy, you might want to ask them to check the account for other chargeback claims.

Brian

budgetkids

Yes, this is most likely the same person. They are in texas

Mach1baby1973

It's the same guy, I got it from the same TX customer, admin needs to bounce this guy

Mach1baby1973

You can go back in the notes section of the dispute and add comments, I recommend everyone to do this as all anyone has is tracking and delivery confirmation. This is a scam artist for sure

DagsBricks

Unless a parent finally discovered his kids' activities? These little tiny orders don't seem like ones that would lead to a scam.

Brian

Mach1baby1973

Could be small feelers for a bigger stab at it, if I was a parent it would be a lesson to my kids not cheating small businesses out of money and product

budgetkids

They filled a charge back for the 2nd portion of the order which was combined, which was tiny compared to the main/first order and has not (yet) been filled for a charge back. Odd indeed

Chris

Mach1baby1973

A parent isn't going to weed through that, if it was truly a minor it would have been for the whole enchilada, this person has 4 orders through me, received them all, so why would they only do 2 charge backs, that's why I don't see this as a kid/parent issue, this is a bigger problem

DagsBricks

Did anyone else have an issue with shipping? I sent to the Paypal confirmed address only to discover that it was different than his BrickOwl one. The BrickOwl address has an "N" in it, the Paypal one does not. Both addresses exist. Mine was returned for going to the non-directional one. I spent my own money on another label that included the "N" and asked the buyer to fix his Paypal address. He said he did but he hasn't.

Brian

budgetkids

3 orders with us. (4 if you count the combined order). Only the smallest one with me was a charge back.
Plus, a child is not going to care about giving positive feedback, like the one they gave me. Kids are just going to want their toys. The feedback was left a week after they received the order they filled a charge back with.

@Brian
I used PayPal address with no delivery problems.

Mach1baby1973

Yes, he wanted me to make sure it was to a specific address, which was the PayPal address, as that's the only one I will ship to for the protection side of PayPal, but he did say something about if I sent it to the right address and he confirmed it

Mach1baby1973

It's not a kid, it's somebody wanting free lego at our expense

alltrightbricks

anyone willing to share a username?

Mach1baby1973

Here you go...davidizaguirre

Plastic-Paradise

Oh man I have had multiple orders with that user as well.

I guess I should get ready.

PP

alltrightbricks

Thanks for the name. No orders placed in my shop,
Katie

Mach1baby1973

I think Lawrence needs to act on this, we don't need this running amuck. He has hit folks on Bricklink as well it appears

Plastic-Paradise

I think I know how's he's doing it. It isn't a new thing to be honest. He is using one address for Brick Owl and a different address and name in the PayPal payment. For those who did not ship to the PayPal address there is likely no protection. I believe that is why he hasn't messed with me or at least he hasn't yet. He emailed me on both orders and made it a point to mention his address but I ship only to PayPal addresses. No deviations no matter what. They got me good a few years ago on eBay by requesting me to ship to a different address then when cases are opened you have no recourse. I placed an order today and had it shipped to another user and it changed the address in PayPal automatically I didn't have to do it at all. However, before clicking the submit payment button there is an option to reinsert my normal address which I suspect is what is happening in this case.

PP

Mach1baby1973

Well he is stupid because both of his charge backs I sent to the PayPal confirmed address

Plastic-Paradise

Have you called PayPal yet? I have won a few just by calling and talking to them.

I don't know your particular situation but its worth a shot.

Also, the orders I got the PayPal name is different than the Brick Owl name not sure if this is the same for everyone else.

PP

budgetkids

Wow, I never thought asking some info would unravel all this!

I will call PayPal tomorrow, and I did ship to PayPal address although according to the order detail page it says unconfirmed for me on all their orders.

Time for bed, goodnight,
Chris

Lawrence

The customer has been suspended from placing orders, in cases like this it is best to report the problem using the report a problem form which can be accessed from the other actions drop down on the order.

budgetkids

For anyone interested that currently has a charge back with PayPal or a seller who is at threat of receiving on in the future. Here is a PayPal charge back guide:

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/chargeback-guide

Chris

Mach1baby1973

I am guessing you got an email from PayPal as I got one with the same info. This person is also running the same user name on Bricklink and I have stop listed them there, I think a good many have stores on both sites

DagsBricks

Is there any interest or reason in filing a class action report with the local Houston police? Mail fraud comes to mind... It may not get anywhere but it puts the guy on their radar. Or if he is a repeat offender it gets their attention.

Brian

DagsBricks

Hey, check it out. In Houston you can file a minor crime report online:

http://www.houstontx.gov/police/online_report.htm

I used the buyer's address as incident address, crime on 5/1 between 7p and 8p (which is when I received the chargeback notice... though that was PDT and Houston is CDT) and declared item type as Other/Other (toys/LEGO). I then included a very brief description that the buyer had made several orders nationally and then filed chargebacks.

If nothing else it should make some small waves though I hope I've acted within the intent of the online crime report.

Brian

Mach1baby1973

Stateside you would have better luck than I in Guam, be nice to see any action. If so message me if you could.

DagsBricks

Guam is part of the US... or not for legal matters such as this? The crime occurred in the states.

Mach1baby1973

It's a territory and does not follow all federal mandates and jurisdictions

DagsBricks

I just got off the phone with Paypal. I wanted to be sure that the disputes filed against many (but not all) purchases were going to be reviewed in aggregate. The rep told me that if anything about how the claims were filed looks out of the ordinary that the buyer's account will be locked and he will be barred from using Paypal. Just for calling in to follow up, she also removed the hold on my account from the chargeback. Though if the dispute is settled in the buyer's favor, I expect the money to be removed again.

She said give it 30 days but keep an eye in my inbox in the meantime.

When I asked about filing a legal case she suggested ic3.gov to get an FBI agent involved.

Am I the only one taking any action on this or are others getting involved too?

Brian

Thor

Brian, thanks for following up on this and deciding to report this buyer to the FBI. Please don't be discouraged if no one else joins you. I would if I were scammed. But I was lucky I guess. Very few would bother reporting this to the FBI. Mainly because they don't think the FBI will do anything and because the amount involved seems too small to bother about. In a word - apathy.

I applaud you for taking the initiative on this despite such apathy. Chances are high nothing will happen. But chances are 100% nothing will happen if no one gets involved. And, even if you are the only one to get involved and the FBI does not follow up, perhaps the buyer will be put on notice now that there is a file on him with the FBI. In other words, maybe he won't pull this stunt again. Just make sure he knows the matter was reported to the authorities.

Speaking of which, you might also want to report this to the buyer's local police. I recall maybe 9 or 10 years ago a similar thing happened on BL. One of the seller's called the police in her town - and an officer actually stopped by her home to question her about the complaint. Shortly thereafter, everyone got their money back. I guess there is nothing like the local sheriff coming to your home to make you think twice about these scams.

Good luck! Please let us know how things turn out.

Thor

DagsBricks

Thanks for your words. I know the amount is small, and I'm guessing that's what the potential scammer is banking on. He's gotten $100s for free but anybody's individual loss is too small to care about. But as I mentioned above, there's strength in numbers and the more people that file a claim, the more closely Paypal/Houston Police/FBI will look and possibly get involved.

It may not be necessary to get the FBI involved, but if each person filed a complaint with the local police via the link I posted above, I would hope a similar thing as you mention might happen.

No loss for trying.

Brian

rebrude

he also placed 2 orders in my store.
that was sometime mid of march, but I haven't heard anything from him or PayPal yet..

how long did it take after he placed the orders in your store until he opened the chargeback or claim?

DagsBricks

Placed March 23. Chargeback initiated May 1. It sounds like some of the orders were disputed, but not all. Lucky you. :-)

Brian

budgetkids

I too contacted PayPal and received a similar speech from PayPal about having the funds released back to me. She even said "Due to the small amount, if anything happens, we will cover the chargeback for you." So I don't see the amount ever coming out again even if the chargeback is successful on the buyers end.
As for the local police report and the FBI report, I have not yet done so but I will do this tonight when I have time to fill it out.

Chris

EDIT: In the chargeback field on PayPal, I provided the tracking info, link to this forum post, and a link to my feedback page as they left me positive feedback a week after receipt of package.

Mach1baby1973

PayPal flipped mine as well and are passing my complaint onto the fraud department as well, so hopefully this guy gets a rude awakening

DagsBricks

I too contacted PayPal and received a similar speech from PayPal about having the funds released back to me. She even said "Due to the small amount, if anything happens, we will cover the chargeback for you." So I don't see the amount ever coming out again even if the chargeback is successful on the buyers end.
As for the local police report and the FBI report, I have not yet done so but I will do this tonight when I have time to fill it out.

Chris

EDIT: In the chargeback field on PayPal, I provided the tracking info, link to this forum post, and a link to my feedback page as they left me positive feedback a week after receipt of package.

Thanks guys, glad to know the flags are going up. Don't forget, this was an "unauthorized use of card", not "item not received" claim. Any tracking info should be irrelevant.

Brian

budgetkids

@DagsBricks I know it was irrelevant, but in the resolution center it asked for it, so I provided it.