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Slopes angle error
"Slope 33º" and "Slope 75º" are both incorrect
Slope 33 is 25º
&
Slope 75 is 73º
I measured first then note that TLG have them listed as such.
They need correcting here and on BL as well as "everywhere else"
Slope 33 is 25º
&
Slope 75 is 73º
I measured first then note that TLG have them listed as such.
They need correcting here and on BL as well as "everywhere else"
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Comments
Brian
Rather, it's the angle of the slope of an hypothetical triangle covering the volume of the slope. Perhaps we should keep it that way?
If it is a must for precise angles, maybe add it as a note or description. But I would leave the name the same.
Chris
Folks this is ridiculous - It's wrong - just because its "always been this way" - is NOT a justified reason to not correct it!!
To put this against a moment in history - I think everyone will have learned of the uproar when it was "revealed" the Earth was a sphere and not a disc!
All because somewhere back in BL history "someone" lacked BASIC math skills - the angle is 25º measured using my Technical Drawing* equipment which concurrs with TLG's description.
*the same kit architects used before CAD
Same with the "alleged" 75º degree slope which IS 73º
If this was a Monty Python sketch maybe I'd laugh…
To close how can any of you "lets leave it wrong" crowd continue refferring to a 33º slope when it's not!
I rarely get uptight or angry - however in this case I will add "Absurd" and "Ludicrous"
AFoL's = Adults teach kids SO will you now be telling your kids that a 25º is actually called a 33º - think about it before adding any more negs...
This major error needs correcting universally - how come it went so long undetected?
Thank You
/rant
Consistency is very important. There's a naming convention in place and BrickOwl alone doesn't have the leadership (yet
Brian
I wonder if the degrees symbol was added later and the 33/75/etc originally meant something else, much as some road signs warn of 1 in 3 slopes, etc. What exactly I'm not sure though.
Better yet, since LDraw generally uses TLG references in regards to slopes, call TLG and have them change it.
:-P
Brian
1) TLG refer to them all as 25º slopes - now i've only been back "into" LEGO since 2008 - since then (until 2011) I thought that BL represented the Bible of LEGO. So as to when and if TLG changed them - I have no knowledge.
2) If LDraw use TLG references then maybe they should update - I don't have the software, as I don't build that way…
The only reason I came across the error is when I found two windscreen pieces that have identical listings and almost got me with an incorrect order - they are both 1x3x4 however one has a 25º slope to it, the other (if I remember correctly) was 53º - I was going to edit them then I realized the slope that I had measured as 25º was the same as "slope 33º" so I held off the edit - and began this thread.
My Wife had a suggestion, at least for now, would be to incorporate "33" in the listing and perhaps label them as Slope 25º (Slope 33) or (AKA Slope 33) in brackets without the º symbol. I really feel the correct angle should be in the listing - because going forwards eventually it will be known as "Slope 25" or "Slope 25º"
I also discovered your 26.67º - I believe that is likely an incorrect entry of the part itself in LDraw - the physical part has a small lip at the front (approx ⅔ height of a tile), if that front lip is excluded/ignored and the piece is drawn to a point instead then you do get a slightly steeper angle - I got 27º ± (I can't measure accurately in less than 1º, altho it sat somewhere between 26ºand 27º.
Also if you build up the slopes you still have 25º only their are slight ridges due to the lip at front - I think the 31º maybe a cummulative error from th epoint above
This is also a good bit of PR if BrickOwl take the lead with this…
Once LDraw update their info - I guess BL will have to follow - I'm not in good favor there so someone who is better liked may fair better!
I also don't frequent other forums to spread this so perhaps someone else could?
I also feel the same ammendment should be made to as "Slope 73º (Slope 75)"
Thing is ALL the other slopes are correct 10º … 18º … 45º and 65º
Graham
… and if interested i've been playing with my TD equipment (it was one of my favorite subjects - no surprise!!)
I have been able to reproduce ⋍33º with the flaws that caused this (Brian these are approx, within 0.5 mm)
If you take 1 stud length is 8mm and 1 stud high is 11mm - then you draw two sides of a triangle (I converted to cm's) 16mm (2 studs long) and 11mm high, then the angle between the longest side and the hypotenuse is close to 33º
the problem there is the 11mm includes the stud, and also that lip is ignored too (which is close to 2mm)
Maybe not quite "basic math" these days - certainly was in my day
There is the cause, Graham
"Slopes include an approximation of the degree of the slope in their descriptions. Some common degrees are 33, 45, 65, and 75."
I don't think it is likely that BL will ever change this policy. It just looks tidier on the page and is easier for people to remember and search for. I think the best we could expect (on BL, here, and elsewhere) is a "true angle" field, where the exact angle accurate to 2 decimal points could be stored and displayed. The "traditionally accepted" angle would still be the one included in the item name.
A real-world example is the ubiquitous 2 x 4 - the beam of wood, not the Lego brick
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumber
It lists "nominal" and "actual" values for each size. According to the chart, a "2 x 4" actually measures 1.5 x 3.5 inches. The paragraphs that follow contain a brief history of these nominal measurements. It is tradition that keeps this convention alive, to be sure, even though it could be construed as false advertising every time someone walks into Home Depot and sees signs for a 2 x 4 but walks out with something significantly smaller.
Did you see my document at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuEDt_1kbL4pdENvb3c5aTg2WHRQZ0NNaXFaemVZekE&usp=sharing#gid=0
???
Brian
I used to sell carpets for many years.
A standard 5X8 carpet in actuality is about 5.7ft by 7.8ft (depending on brand)
Same thing for 8X11 carpets. We refereed to them as 5x8 rugs even though they really weren't, but if a person was needing to fit the carpet in a specific area, we would get them the exact measurement.
I like the idea of calling it the current name, but adding the "Actual measurement xx.xx" and also placing this in a tag so it is searchable. This is exactly how the area rug carpet industry does it.
Chris
Something like "Slope 33º (act. 25º) 3 x 1"
or "Slope 25º (aka 33º) 3 x 1"
I got a text from one of my employees yesterday trying to pull orders asking "what the hell is a slope 25º?"
BO is not a catalogue purist site. Its a commercial shopping site. We need to remember to keep it easy for buyers to find what they are looking for.
@Stragus
Agreed. The "original" name should be in its name for customers who frequently buy.
We have recently learned the truth about the angles, so buyers are definitely uninformed about this and will cause issues. If a seasoned seller like dadsAFOL crew can't figure it out, how is a buyer to do so?
Chris
@Community is this good with you?
I know it as a slope 33º and so do most buyer, even if they know the name is wrong for the angle.
Katie
I don't figure many will be confused for long whatever it is named, makes little difference to me.
Slope 25° 1 X 3 (I could easily live with 3 x 1)
The LDraw name is attached to the part already. Peeron has the same name too. If these names are open to search people would find the part with the 33 name.
Leave it clean and tidy, the new generation coming from the LEGO site sees the same name as the pick a brick site. More people googling for their first time will see the name LEGO gives it, follow the larger emerging market rather than the smaller traditional market.
That's my pitch, second choice would be as Stragus suggested with the LEGO Name searchable. However the tags work best to search both names.
Point 1 - me neither until I came across those two "windscreens" with identical descriptions but different designs (slopes) - how to enter them to differentiate? I certainly couldn't submit an angle knowing it was wrong.
Hopefully someone will persuade BL - and LDraw IF they follow TLG convention then they just need an update
Sorted!!