No age limits could be a problem (PayPal claims programmed). Today's children often know their parents' passwords etc (they often know more about the computers at home than do their parents). I love the idea that underage buyers are accepted, but there should be something in place to add the parents' permission.
Understood. If a child knows there parents PayPal password, we cannot help with that. I would rather deal with problematic users on a case-by-case basis, rather than assuming all young users will be problematic
Admin, there is another reason to consider excluding orders from children. Many countries (especially some in Europe) have very strict laws about maintaining the records and privacy of minors. Based on what I have been told by others in Europe, some of these laws can be quite burdensome. And, for some, it does not matter if you do not know they are a minor.
I don't know specific EU laws on this, so if anyone in the EU has some examples, please let us know.
If true, you might want to let each seller decide for themselves whether or not they wish to receive orders, payments and personal information from minors.
in Germany: contracts with minors <18 are NOT binding. This applies to online sales. Seller has to make sure that the buyer is over 18 or that parent's permission is given. Exception for small amounts which the minor can possibly pay with his pocket money (and which he pays by his own means, i.e. cash or bank account for minor). AFAIK similar laws in the other EU countries.
In the USA, contracts with minors are voidable by the minor (but not voidable by the other side). In other words, the minor gets to choose whether, when and how to be bound (if at all) under any contract. The adult party to the contract has no say in the matter, and can have the contract enforced against him by the minor (but not vice versa).
But apart from contract issues, I was more concerned about privacy laws for minors and any increased burdens that may be placed upon sellers who knowingly or unknowingly sell to minors. US laws on this are not clear and vary widely from state to state. But I have heard that the EU is very strict about protecting the privacy of minors online.
For privacy and contract reasons, I wonder if some sellers may want the option to block orders from minors, or to set a minimum age for buyers in their shop settings.
Today's children often know their parents' passwords etc (they often know more about the computers at home than do their parents).
They can also make an account with their parents' names an place the order as long as they can use the paypal account... so if some minor really wants to do this a signup asking future members to be over 18 hardly stops them.
It will stop some, and that's enough for me. I don't require 100% effectiveness. If laws required 100% effectiveness to be enacted, we would not have any laws. There ARE a lot of people who still obey the rules.
I briefly looked into it, you have the COPPA act, as long as I don't try to target children, and don't ask for dates of birth, there is no issue. I will implement rules later if problems occur.
It will stop some, and that's enough for me. I don't require 100% effectiveness. If laws required 100% effectiveness to be enacted, we would not have any laws. There ARE a lot of people who still obey the rules.
Using their parent's paypal account to pay for the order without their approval IS breaking the rules. If they are fine doing that what would stop them to break the signup rule?
Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you on this, it may cause some problems, but I can't see how this could be implemented to work. It would be pretty much the same thing if you wrote in your store terms that minors need parents approval to place an order.
You are thinking black and white. Of course it won't work 100% of the time. But neither will it fail 100% of the time. My guess is that most kids listen to their parents and follow the rules. So having the rule is enough in most cases to prevent the unwanted behavior. Just because a few kids may not follow the rules is no reason to have anarchy and no rules at all.
I tell my kids not to play with matches and they listen to me. But if I leave matches lying around and don't say anything, my kids are definitely going to play with them. My rules work to stop the unwanted behavior. It works BECAUSE the rule exists. Without my rule the unwanted behavior is guaranteed to happen.
My teenage daughters know I will take away their I-phones if they text or play with them after midnight. So they don't text or play with their I-phones after midnight. Without my rule, they would. So, very simply, the very existence of my rules prevent the unwanted behavior. I am sure it is this way with most kids most of the time. And that is enough.
Don't get me wrong. I think that it would be a good idea to let minors buy on the site, they are the future AFOLs. Question is, how. Why not try another way? For instance a special welcome screen for minors where more is explained and things can go in the right direction. Maybe a little gift for filling out everything right (including parents' permission). Just my 2 cents.
I assume the "parents"/paypal users is responsible for the use of the account.. You propably agree to that when signing up for pay pal. So if you tell ur kid the paypal password blame is on the parent..
Comments
I don't know specific EU laws on this, so if anyone in the EU has some examples, please let us know.
If true, you might want to let each seller decide for themselves whether or not they wish to receive orders, payments and personal information from minors.
Thor
contracts with minors <18 are NOT binding. This applies to online sales. Seller has to make sure that the buyer is over 18 or that parent's permission is given. Exception for small amounts which the minor can possibly pay with his pocket money (and which he pays by his own means, i.e. cash or bank account for minor). AFAIK similar laws in the other EU countries.
But apart from contract issues, I was more concerned about privacy laws for minors and any increased burdens that may be placed upon sellers who knowingly or unknowingly sell to minors. US laws on this are not clear and vary widely from state to state. But I have heard that the EU is very strict about protecting the privacy of minors online.
For privacy and contract reasons, I wonder if some sellers may want the option to block orders from minors, or to set a minimum age for buyers in their shop settings.
Thor
Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you on this, it may cause some problems, but I can't see how this could be implemented to work. It would be pretty much the same thing if you wrote in your store terms that minors need parents approval to place an order.
I tell my kids not to play with matches and they listen to me. But if I leave matches lying around and don't say anything, my kids are definitely going to play with them. My rules work to stop the unwanted behavior. It works BECAUSE the rule exists. Without my rule the unwanted behavior is guaranteed to happen.
My teenage daughters know I will take away their I-phones if they text or play with them after midnight. So they don't text or play with their I-phones after midnight. Without my rule, they would. So, very simply, the very existence of my rules prevent the unwanted behavior. I am sure it is this way with most kids most of the time. And that is enough.
Thor