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Handling fee--something to consider
At the moment I have a handling fee that is incorporated into my shipping. So if I figure shipping is going to cost $2 on a package, then I set my shipping at $3 as a way of adding in this fee--as I'm sure most sellers on here do--add in a fee of some sort.
The trouble with this method is that if I want to waive my handling fee for a few days and see if it brings in more orders, the only way I can do this is to go in and manually change every entry for my shipping costs. Really not worth it.
Now, if I could set all my prices, and then enter my handling fee per shipping method (so I can keep a different handling fee for domestic and international). This would allow me to change just the handling fee for all the prices to be affected.
On the buyer end, you wouldn't need to show the fee, just one final shipping cost.
Thank you for considering this.
Katie
The trouble with this method is that if I want to waive my handling fee for a few days and see if it brings in more orders, the only way I can do this is to go in and manually change every entry for my shipping costs. Really not worth it.
Now, if I could set all my prices, and then enter my handling fee per shipping method (so I can keep a different handling fee for domestic and international). This would allow me to change just the handling fee for all the prices to be affected.
On the buyer end, you wouldn't need to show the fee, just one final shipping cost.
Thank you for considering this.
Katie
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If it's something that I then have to do then no
- I like it as simple as can be and having spent many hours figuring out postage. I have no desire to redo it all!
"handling costs" are part of the whole, and (IMO) should be absorbed
If you mean packing materials as opposed to handling and if it's costing you more than 20-30¢ per order or perhaps 40¢ on a large lot order - you may want to look at your sources of materials.
Customers will be looking at the grand total anyway (in the same way as eBay by looking at parts + post)
Graham
One of my biggest peeves with Bricklink is all the various additional fees added by stores. Handling, PayPal, packaging, etc. It's now got to the point where the parts listings become worthless for comparison purposes. The store supposedly offering the cheapest price actually ends up charging you more than many stores listed below them. I personally would hate to see that evolve here.
I think the only legitimate reason why any fee/cost should be separated out from anything else is if that fee/cost is treated in a different way for tax purposes.
An easier way to achieve what you want when you wish to waive your handling fee might be to offer a voucher on your home page that deducts $1 (or whatever) from the total order cost. This way you can even track how many times it's been used.
On my end having one is easier. I spend a lot of time trying to find suppliers who will even ship to Alaska. I've had many orders cancelled on Amazon because they won't ship to me. The last one I read the terms so carefully, and after it was cancelled and I reread the terms again, they had Alaska listed as a different country--go figure. I finally found one seller who will ship, but the postage I pay extra about doubles the cost of the mailers. Small boxes that cost $0.49 at Walmart in Idaho cost me $0.85/.90 here.
So just a couple of things. I have no desire to get into a handling fee--should we or shouldn't we debate
I think this would easily be optional, It would just involve a box on each shipping page, that says--add this fixed amount to each shipping band for this shipping method. If a sellers has already set their shipping and doesn't want to be bothered with it, they can leave it at 0.00.
Katie
@Hoddie, this would always be included in the shipping cost, therefore no unfairness in comparing prices.
@Admin, is this possible?
@Hoddie - agreed and that is why I rarely buy anything on BL - these days you need to go to the 2nd or even 3rd page of results to find sellers who don't add loads of extras.
Got had again - just today a set of instructions (weren't available on BO) with a $1.25 "handling" fee - instructions were $1.90 the invoice was close to $7 - sent media mail - one of the big sellers too…
@Katie - I see… Alaska does present a little problem - just checked my suppliers and you are right (AK/Hi excluded)
But then you could just put that against the benefits of living in Alaska, not just the scenery, also the taxes you don't pay - don't yall get a payout from the State like negative taxes?
I am surprised some entrepreneurial type isn't loading semi's with stuff to resell in AK!!
Wouldn't the suggestion by Hoddie work?
Graham
@Graham-Many pros and cons to living in Alaska. Food is 25-30% higher here. Gas is $3.99. We do get PFDs here which does help supplement that, but honestly doesn't make up the difference. Last year was $800, I heard it was once as high as $5000--why wasn't I here then?
There is no state income tax, and no sales tax. But wait a minute, there is. We pay 6% city tax, as with most places in AK--put ordering online you don't pay that, and that is very nice!
6 of one and half a dozen of another. There are definitely reasons why I live in this state, although in about two weeks we are going to get invaded by mosquitoes, and you may need to remind me again
Katie
As I noted above, I have only been surprised by fees on BrickLink on less than a dozen of my 1300+ orders there. Twice by an EU seller who charges 6 euros to fill out a customs form and a half dozen or so times when fees were inexplicably charged.
And in the tens of thousands of times I have searched for items on BrickLink, I have never had to skip more than one or two initial sellers because of their fees, much more a full page or two of search listings.
Personally, I enjoy shopping on BrickLink more than I do here on the Owl. I find it easier to find what I want there and compare prices. I also found prices here on the Owl generally higher than prices on BrickLink.
Nonetheless, I am glad the Owl is around to offer an alternative and some competition to BrickLink. I shop on both places. And sell on both sites as well. BrickLink may have its problems. But I don't think outrageous or hidden fees are at all rampant on that site. So I don't worry that implementing the OP's above suggestion would move the Owl towards what I consider a non-problem on BrickLink. The OP's suggestion makes sense and gets a thumbs up from me.
Thor
Seriously, I don't understand why any business would want to add a per-order charge. As a customer I would be seriously annoyed by that, particularly when you're talking about relatively low transactions. Minimum order values I understand, but I don't understand a per-order fee. And the fact that none of these 'hidden' fees is represented in any way on the store listings especially annoys me; it makes a simple process into a protracted one. Click buy, check hidden fees, check shipping costs, click back, click back, repeat for the next 10 sellers. It's tedious. It's not so bad when you're buying a set but when it comes to parts it quickly gets boring trying to find the cheapest total cost. These days I give my custom to those who don't have hidden fees, regardless if the price-per-piece is slightly higher than elsewhere. This usually worked out to be cheaper overall in any case, and it saves a hell of a lot of time. But, as I said, it makes the listings worthless for their intended purpose - the buyer being able to compare prices.
Bad practices seem endemic on Brick Link to be honest, as a buyer I much prefer Brick Owl and the more this place tries to emulate Brick Link, the less relevant it will be in my opinion. But yes, prices here do seem to be a little higher, though this will change in time I'm sure.
Thor, I'm curious why you find easier to compare prices on BrickLink, one would think that the clear and upfront cost structure of BrickOwl would make any comparison much easier.
Higher prices are possible though, there's probably less competition between sellers around here...
I thought we were having a discussion, it feels like you are trying to turn that into pot-stirring on BL.
Tracy
Robert
As a seller, I'm aware there are many many costs involved in selling. As a marketplace, our main concern is making sure that these are upfront and simple to the customer by having all of those costs spread across the stores item prices and shipping and handling prices. The store can charge whatever they want, the customer can then decide if they are happy with that not.
I just don't understand the need. Search for any item on BL and you get a page similar to this:
Seller 1 - $40
Seller 2 - $40.50
Seller 3 - $44
Seller 4 - $45
Seller 5 - $47
etc
Normally the top few sellers don't offer the cheapest deal despite what the results might suggest. You have to click through and read every seller's terms, check for added costs and shipping, etc. It's just not an easy experience and BO does this bit so much better (but still isn't perfect). Any change to push BO more towards the BL model serves nobody in my opinion.
Regarding 'quote request' - I use force quote request on several items because the dimensions are missing or don't take into account that the item can be safely folded (many polybags for example). This ensures buyers aren't over-charged by the automatic over-estimating of shipping costs. As a consequence I get a lot of quote requests and probably 4/5s turn into sales.
I find Dag's Bricks blog (http://www.dagsbricks.com/) eye-watering the way some sellers treat their customers. Many practices he encounters simply wouldn't be accepted from any other retailer. Some of them wouldn't even be legal.
Those contentious fees some sellers charge are not a consequence of monopoly (it is far from that), there are thousands of competing sellers. The reason I believe those fees have grown over the years is because some sellers think they have to be the cheapest in the price guide to get orders and that is because many buyers look at "the cheapest first" when of course that is not the final price they pay. As a seller it is an issue because it is not a level playing field, those that price that way pay less fees to the site as well hence I see it as unfair competition. Hats off to this site for charging fees on the total price which helps but as long as buyers look for the lowest price (which is understandable to an extent) there will be some sellers who try to get there artificially. Even here it can be done to an extent using the quote system. Lower prices attract buyers and they will only request quotes from so many stores before making a purchase. All that said, my experience as a buyer and seller is that people ultimately find the stores that give them the best value and that is not just price, it is quality and service too. Regarding illegal, the biggest problem here in Europe at least are those stores that do not adhere to the Distance Selling Regulations and I see that on both sites.
Robert
Regarding the DSR - and similar regulations in other countries - I believe BL and BO suffer as a whole when sellers openly flout those rules but still flourish. It reduces confidence in the whole platform in my opinion. Sadly many consumers don't know their rights and I guess some sellers prefer it that way.
It would seem from some of the comments in this thread and over on BL that some people believe everyone should accept and understand that sellers on BL/BO are entitled to operate in some sort of bubble parallel to every other type of reputable trader. That shouldn't be the case and I applaud Admin for doing it the right way here.
I think the system lends itself to allowing loopholes but there is no shortage of wonderful people doing their best.
So the weakness in the system should have some separation from the people I think.
Many other things you and others say I agree with. Thankfully there are many kinds of customers to serve.
I see your point behind the words, just trying to dull the edge a little.
This is unnecessary. There are some wonderful features on BO that make it stand out without any need for badmouthing the competition with exaggerated claims of "endemic" problems there.
I will say again... I support Katie's suggestion. I do NOT believe it creates any "fee" problems here. Nor do I believe the "fee" problem on BL is "endemic" or that one has to skip pages of search results to find a seller without fees. I believe these statements to be highly exaggerated and untrue. Why do I even mention BL here? Because others seem to want to use BL as a worst case scenario for what might happen if BO implements Katie's suggestion. I think the comparison and claim are bogus.
I buy and sell on both sites, but mostly on BL. On both BO and BL I price to make most of my listings appear in the first few search results for similar bulk. And for at least 80% of my buyers, no fees are charged. The rest are charged a very clearly stated modest fee of "up to $1.00". So false statements like this personally affect me because they lump me and many other good sellers with only the very few who do create problems.
In closing, let me also remind you that many BO sellers charge just as much fees as BL sellers, if not more. But instead of separating out their fees, they include and add it to their shipping rates. Just like most online retailers. Personally, as a buyer, I would rather see actual postage and fees separated rather than having fees buried and hidden in a general shipping charge. But that is just me I guess.
Thor
I'm not suggesting that BL sellers are evil or out to con buyers, but the way BL's search results work it has encouraged sellers to cut their per-piece pricing while inflating their per-order pricing to recoup the difference. I don't honestly think that can be considered good for buyers or good for sellers. Many will claim it is proven to work, but it works only because there was previously no other option. BO offers that other option, and changing things here to emulate the worst parts of BL won't help anyone.
Clear and up-front pricing is what makes BO stand out in my opinion. You can fill a cart, see the price and decide whether or not to go ahead. The same is patently not true on BL. You have to read a buyer's terms, their shipping chart and then somehow evaluate what the postage will be either by guesswork or by adding up the weight of everything in the cart and allowing for packaging materials - all before you commit to buy. Yeah, you can always message a seller but that takes time - and I don't think you can even send a cart to the store, you have to include all the info in your message.
It cannot be said that fees on BO are hidden when they're presented to you on every single page. Besides, you're the one who put forward the word 'hidden' - they were previously described as extras. But call them what you will, hidden, ghost, extras, the fact that these exist at all makes comparing prices that bit harder on BL.
For some reason I can't login over on BL so I will reply here.
In response to your challenge to find stores who add extra fees. The top 3 featured stores all add extra fees beyond what appears in the search listings. I gave up at that point but I think it demonstrates how common these extras are.
I should add that at least one of those sellers has terms that break EU consumer legislation. So much for featured stores!
That being said, as a buyer, I don't really find the minimum S&H charge on every listing here on BO to be all that useful. Mainly because I don't buy one or a few parts, so the MINIMUM S&H charge rarely applies to me. Likewise, when shopping for sets, listing each seller's minimum S&H charge on every listing does not really help the seller because almost all sets will cost much more than the minimum S&H listed to ship that set. So what actual real use is it to a buyer to show/compare minimum S&H charges when those minimums won't apply to their order? Heck, on BO one can manipulate their rankings in the search results here by having a very low minimum but higher S&H thereafter.
As for the word "hidden", yes, I used that word to describe some of the complaints of fees not being known until after you place your order. How else should you describe them?
Thor
That was NOT my challenge. My challenge was to find store that use percentage based fees. A store that has a clearly stated modest $1 fee is not a problem IMO.
BTW, I could just as easily list stores here on BO that charge fees by having minimum shipping charges that are higher than actual minimum postage charges. That excess amount above postage is a fee as far as I am concerned. And I have no problem with it at all. I just don't have the illusion that no fees are charged here on BO. They most certainly are, and many times they are not so clear because they are simply made a part of shipping. Which is also fine with me BTW.
Thor
Thor
My annoyance with BL is not that stores charge more than the actual cost of shipping, it is that their extra fees are not represented in the search results. I simply don't want that happening here.
At least one of those top 3 featured stores charges a percentage based fee. Maybe the other two do too but I can't be bothered to go back and check.
BO is at least better in letting buyers know S&H when they are ready to check out. But NOT while they are searching for individual items that are merely part of a larger order. Showing useless MINIMUM S&H charges in the search results is merely window dressing. It is like saying you will only pay $1.00 to eat lunch at McDonalds. Sure, if you order a single small burger from the Dollar Menu and nothing else. But for those with larger appetites, that $1 burger price is meaningless.
Thor
And as much as you can say some fees aren't hidden... On BrickLink, I once placed an order in a store that said "insurance may be charged, at the seller's discretion", or some other sequence of words to that effect. That "insurance" ended up being $17, more than 10% of the order's cost. I didn't feel like fighting a NPB or retaliatory negative feedback, but these practices are clearly abusive, and (sadly) encouraged by the system itself.
You're correct that this isn't necessarily helpful when looking at parts, but it's incredibly helpful when looking at sets. My point is and always was that BL shows how difficult it can be to gauge the best deal. Click, click, back, back, click, click, back, back. Open calculator, estimate weight, consider if dimensions matter, consider PayPal fees. Do you meet a store's lot requirements, etc, etc. There's very little of that on BO and I hope this remains the case.
This isn't the first argument you've had with me - I still have the PM from the last one. I don't know if you're a troll or just forceful with your opinion, but it's boring now. I've explained myself multiple times yet you continue to try and mis-represent the argument both here and on BL. For the sake of my own sanity I will leave you alone.
In the vast majority of cases, BO does NOT show a buyer's shipping costs in the search results. It shows a seller's MINIMUM shipping costs there. If a buyer on BO wants to see their actual shipping costs, they have to add items to their shopping cart in a particular store. Unless the buyer is ordering only a few parts, the search results on BO are useless for comparing shipping costs between two or more stores. To do that, you have to compare shopping carts for the entire order - not minimum shipping noted in the search results for each particular item.
For sets it is worse - not better or even close to helpful. If I am shopping for a 5 pound set, what good is it to me for the BO search results to tell me a seller's shipping for a two ounce parcel? The search results don't help at all. Only shopping carts help.
For these reasons, I completely reject your claim that BO's search results are any better than BL's for comparing a seller's shipping and fees. The ONLY reason BO is better is because it tells you this in the shopping cart before you check out, but not in the search results. So you still have to click open windows and switch back and forth between sellers if you want to compare your final cost.
If you can respond to that without insults or name-calling, please do so.
Thor