Make leaving a negative feedback more difficult

Pikka

We've received our first negative feedback!

The buyer informed us that he didn't receive all the pieces ("ordered 8, received 4"), then expressed his frustration with the situation ("It's annoying, I'll have to find another shop.") and immediately left the negative feedback ("quantity not respected"). We immediately contacted the buyer, apologized for the error and offered to send the missing parts or issue a refund ASAP. Unfortunately, the buyer refused both solutions ("No need to send me the missing parts. No need to reimburse me.") which is his full right. We’re just saddened by the fact he didn’t contact us before leaving the negative feedback and giving us a fair chance to make it right.

Now, I was thinking about a system, which would prevent the buyer to leave a negative before giving the seller a fair chance to resolve the issue. I think communication is the key and many of issues can be resolved to mutual satisfaction with just a few nice words. I contacted the Admin and learned that actually there is a technical requirement that customer have to contact a store before leaving a negative feedback. Sure, the buyer did send us the aforementioned message, just to be able to leave the feedback. He clearly wasn't interested in what we may say or offer. I think the buyer should wait a reasonable time (let's say 3 days) for a reply from the seller, and only then be able to leave the feedback – whatever it is.

So, what do you think: are you OK with the process as it is now, or do you have an idea how to improve it?

TechnicBuilt

Why would they not want a refund or replacement of parts? Seem odd. Even if they weren't going to come back to your store at least take the free parts or refund.

HeartlandBrix

@TechnicBuilt: I've been the customer in a situation like this before. The store had sent me the wrong part. I contacted the store to let them know the issue. They offered to replace the parts (not a refund), but the cost of the parts were incredibly small...something like 20¢ or less. For that little bit, I didn't see a point in the store spending $4+ dollars on shipping, and I felt that trying to fight for a 20¢ refund wasn't worth the time investment. We agreed I would keep what they had sent me and left it at that.

@Pikka: Upvoted. Some online sites have a 7-day window.

Calibrick

@Pikka I know you've been a terrific seller for many years, so I am very sorry to hear the customer didn't attempt to reach you first.

If it is a requirement here on BO to attempt to reach the seller FIRST before leaving a negative (I mean, if they still want to leave a negative after that, regardless of if the seller is someone proactive like you or a jerk), that can't really be stopped.

But it seems to be the code could enforce the following:

1. Buyer clicks feedback and clicks NEGATIVE
2. Pop-up or screen change asks if they have attempted contact with the seller re the issues per site terms and has it been a minimum of three working days (M-F sans national holidays) without response?
3. If they say yes (meaning they did try and there was no response), the system asks if they would like to leave an ISSUE REPORT (if yes, goes to that screen.
4. If no, system reminds buyer that reaching out or an issue report are their options at this time OR if they were unsatisfied with the response they DID receive, they may proceed to leave negative feedback.

Or something along those lines... it at least makes buyers think through the site rules?

If buyer fibs on that yes and leaves neg feedback, I believe that is grounds for feedback removal (message to admin requesting).

alexwilcox

@Calibrick I like your suggestion a LOT!!

Would really make the buyer stop and think before just leaving a negative.

Randyipp

Sucks they didn't contact you but that isn't their job. A negative is the ultimate time to sit back and reflect on your own processes to try harder and make sure you don't send out 4 parts instead of 8.

That being said, everyone can over react when they are disappointed. A cool off time is not the worst idea, similar to eBay's top rated sellers requires you to wait a week before leaving negative. Don't really think it is necessary but it is up to the admin.

@Pikka Why doesn't this buyer have feedback from you?

Pikka

@Randyipp Sure, a buyer can overreact when he's disappointed. And a seller can make a packing error. Both things are perfectly human – and humans talk and solve problems. Unfortunately, these two failed to establish communication. I'm sure a cool-off time would have helped defuse the situation.

Our store have had an impeccable record so far. Some issues did arise from time to time, but we've always managed to make things right. One bad review does hurt quite a bit, but it doesn't outweigh hundreds of good ones. So no, we don't think it's "the ultimate time to sit back and reflect" on our own processes, because 99.8% customers still think we're doing a great job.

As for our feedback - our options are limited. Most probably we'll go along with: If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all.

Randyipp

I completely agree with the first part, not talking to your seller is a poor way to handle this.

Impeccable record because buyers forgave a mistake, which 99% will do that.

But be realistic here, as a seller you have to own your mistakes and move on. You got worked up enough to feel like an entire site needs to change, buyer got worked up cause 4 parts were missing and some time was lost. It's easy to get worked up over little things, some times you just got to move on.

You could still send the missing parts plus a bonus, say a cmf, with an apology. My first thought is always "how much would I pay to avoid a negative?"

Last thing, I think in this day and age of Amazon and inflation combined, means that going forward it's going to be near impossible to keep a flawless record.

Pikka

@Randyipp I don't feel "entire site needs to change". There already is a requirement that buyer have to contact a store before being able to leave a negative feedback – in our case, the customer successfully gamed the system. I'm just asking for fine-tuning the process to the intended spirit.
Sure, we do own our mistakes – we offered to send the missing pieces (the buyer declined) so we sent a refund (despite buyer declining that solution too). I don't expect him to remove the feedback, it's all water under the bridge now. I just don't like the power dynamics where buyers have that much leverage over sellers. That's why I put this in Suggestions for evaluation, so let's se what happens...

nita_rae

> Now, I was thinking about a system, which would prevent the buyer to leave a negative before giving the seller a fair chance to resolve the issue.

I call that a “cooling off period”. It gives the counter-party (seller or buyer) a chance to consider the ramifications, and the best way to move forward. It is important to remember that, while we think we are selling LEGO sets and parts, what we are actually selling is happiness (and likely in the form of Dopamine releases in the brain, both when the order is placed and when it is received).

If what was ordered differs from what is received, then unhappiness results, and the happiness blip to the brain is lost.

But note that the above description, combined with my feelings about degraded seals/boxes and the visibility of a lengthy description, all play together on setting up the environment for the buyer to have a clearer picture of what they are ordering. It’s an ecosystem, and must be thought of as such.

Pikka

@nita_rae > If what was ordered differs from what is received, then unhappiness results, and the happiness blip to the brain is lost.

Amazon.com is one of the biggest businesses in the world. And yet I wasn't expecting their ratings to be stellar. But they are currently BAD, just below 2 stars (according to Trust Pilot – check the attached image). They messed up a few of my orders but they always managed to make it up. Will I keep shopping there? Sure, I'll take my chances... again.

It's all about managing expectations. I don't remember watching a movie, staying in a hotel or eating in a restaurant that had 100% positive reviews. But give me anything above 4 stars or 80% and I'll be over the moon. On a long enough time-scale, we all make mistakes. It's how we deal with them that makes a difference.

Randyipp

@Pikka then why does it matter if you have a 99.8% positive rating?

I feel like you are now arguing against yourself here and the need to change things.

Pikka

@Randyipp It's simple. As a buyer, I really don't care. But as a seller, I have to deal with buyers who do.

Gaston.La.Brick

I agree with @Randyipp .

Aren't we all (including myself!) a bit obsessed with the "100% positive feedback target"?
We feel one negative feedback is a huge issue, but it the end: it's only one individual feedback. Some people give negative feedback (too) easily, just like other give positive feedback (too) easily. In the end, it's the overall result that really matters: a 90+% score shows a trustworthy seller.

We should be able to just accept those few negative feedbacks, as long as the overall balance is OK.

When I buy on Amazon, shops getting 90+% feedback are excellent. Why should it be different here?
@Pikka , I understand you, but I don't think the majority of buyers really is focusing on those one or two negative feedback lines. Certainly not enough so it's worth to put your time and energy in it.

leopard37

@Pikka I agree with Gaston. I think I'm almost at the point that when I see 100% on the other site, I'm now assuming that they must use their feedback in a retaliatory fashion to ensure they stay there (I'm sure that is not the case every time).

Hoddie

People use and abuse feedback for all sorts of reasons. I understand @Pikka being annoyed at getting a negative for something so minor, when other sellers get away with much worse because some buyers don't care as much or are agreeable to an amicable solution.

But I don't honestly see an easy fix. Ebay's feedback system is equally open to abuse. I've seen sellers have negative feedback removed as a perk of being a good Ebay customer, and when that kind of thing happens, it makes the whole shebang completely worthless.

BL's system is just as worthless, I simply don't believe the feedback scores there due to the widespread hostaging issue. Whenever I buy anything there, which is rare and getting rarer, I now look at the kind of feedback sellers leave other people, that's far more indicative of the type of person they are if you ask me.

I think the best suggestion so far has been for BO to force buyers to open a formal issue and then only open the ability to leave a negative after a further 7 days has elapsed. This allows the seller to attempt to provide a remedy, but if the buyer is still unhappy after 7 days, even if the issue has been resolved, they should be allowed to leave negative feedback imo. Some buyers require that an order is right first time, and they're entitled to be annoyed if it's not.

leopard37

"Some buyers require that an order is right first time, and they're entitled to be annoyed if it's not."
And some sellers are incredible and fix mistakes and still receive poor feedback because the buyer would never be satisfied. You unfortunately can't be everything to everyone. People are different and if they have a different expectations, how do you meet those expectations without them communicating them ahead of time.

eg. We reuse TLG bags for packing and almost always have new and used separated per order. Depending on size of order there may be more 1 bag per type. However some customers have not used me because there is not a bag per lot.

Hoddie

I agree, you're never going to please everyone, which is why undeserved negative feedback shouldn't matter. But we all know it does.

Fact remains, feedback should reflect the person's view of the transaction. If someone thought you used too few bags, and it really spoiled the transaction for them, they should be allowed to leave a negative. It's not up to anyone else to judge a person's priorities or how they feel about the sale.

leopard37

Exactly and we have had tons of responses saying thank you for using fewer bags and reusing them to be environmental responsible and not flooding the world with more plastic. Ironic because we sell a plastic product, but none the less.

Calibrick

I really like @Hoddie 's expansion on my idea (with the auto-issue report when negative clicked), by enabling a 7-day cooling off period - then they can leave whatever feedback they see fit. It satisfies BO documented policy and gives folks the opportunity to make things right, which may shift the words left in feedback.

BTW - @nita_rae gets the quote of the day award from me! I LOVE her statement of, "It is important to remember that, while we think we are selling LEGO sets and parts, what we are actually selling is happiness (and likely in the form of Dopamine releases in the brain, both when the order is placed and when it is received)."

Selling happiness. Indeed, right on!!!!!!

Mrs Swoop

I also like the @Calibrick / @Hoddie suggestions to open an issue when negative clicked and have a 7-day cooling off period. Because if you don't have an issue why are leaving negative feedback?

As a buyer I've been on the receiving end of some truly exceptional customer service here on BO. But we all know that not all sellers here operate that way and also that not all buyers are quick, or even willing, to leave negative feedback or report an issue, so it may be helpful if those sellers are aware that the option to report an issue is being more proactively presented to buyers. In fact, I think there should be a 'Report an Issue' button on order screens (rather than it being under a menu) that explains the steps you should take; try contacting seller, then report an issue, then negative feedback.

Another option is to have a neutral feedback option, for when raising an issue isn't warranted, such as 'I got everything I ordered but I'd prefer it if you used fewer plastic bags'. Feedback without the judgement.

Calibrick

@Mrs Swoop There is a neutral option already that neither enhances nor counts against your feedback %, if that helps. :-)

Mrs Swoop

Ok, is that just on the buyer's feedback? So leaving neutral feedback would be an option if they didn't want to raise an issue.

stumpyjon

As a buyer rather than seller I can see both sides, I think the cooling off period is a good idea. I've had quite a few incorrect orders on here from a range of sellers, however everyone one of them has been really good about trying to sort it out when contacted. I recognise that I'm dealing with individuals selling here not professional corporations. Generally I don't even look at feedback, availability and price in that order are my main concerns. On a side note I've been waiting for a month now for a standard pick a brick order from Lego, supposedly shipped 2 weeks ago , got a generic response back when querying where it was. And it will all be in the same bag. Compared to Lego, BO is brilliant. I've actually ordered most of the parts now from BO at a much higher price as they may actually turn up.

Bricks On The Move

Just to add my 2 cents to this it would be nice JUST to get a buyer to Mark as item as Received let alone leave feedback lol. Has just looked at our orders and we have 2/3rd of them still showing as "shipped" and these orders go back many months. We know cust has got items via tracking etc. We sell here as well on another platform we do not see this issue on the other site. Would be nice if this was looked at as well so how and something set up where a pop up or something comes up after X weeks have you got this order etc.

Cause from we are seeing here I am guessing it hard to find where to mark the item as got on the site and leave feedback. I can only go off what we are seeing from a seller point of view. As has never been a buyer

Graham

@Pikka

You can reply to feedback, at least you can leave your side.

I know how you feel, I recently received my first negative (elsewhere) after 20+ years of online trading, best to not dwell on it, it's a bit like the first scratch on a brand new car. They were probably having a bad day.

andirunner

I don't think buyers (who are not also selling) understand the gravity of a negative feedback. I do think that having some sort of system in place to ensure that communication has happened and an effort has been made to make things right would be good.

I'm proud of my current track record, but realize that it could have been any of us. I work full-time outside of BO selling and have certainly made mistakes. I've just been fortunate that buyers have been understanding and accepting of my offers to fix an error.

@Pikka I totally get how this is upsetting.

In solidarity.
Andi

unbrickable

@Calibrick thats a good idea to implement something like that !