Block Russian stores

Hoddie

Can BO be on the right side of history?

tons_of_bricks

There was a very similar BL thread. Since BL is a US company, if the US imposed sanctions, then BL would have to block Russia. I assume the same would be true for BO if the UK imposed sanctions.

The russian people themselves hate this war and don't want anything to do with it, so I can see both sides of the argument of whether Russia should be banned. At this point, I personally think it should be up to the individual users themselves whether they interact with Russia or not.

Mrs Swoop

I agree with @firestar246, I don't think the russian people who sell lego on BO are the problem, so at the moment I would say it's a personal choice.

Hoddie

The wrong side of history, then?

Mrs Swoop

If you say so. I do see both sides, I wouldn't argue strongly either way and I am open to being convinced otherwise. If BO decide to do this I won't be kicking up a fuss. But at the moment I don't see what it would achieve.

tons_of_bricks

@Hoddie only if a few lego sales on a relatively small site determines our side in this war. The main reason I don't want BO to shut down Russia is because to me, that's taking away the freedom of all the buyers and sellers here. If BO is gonna shut down Russia, better shut down all middle east countries too.

I'm not siding with Putin, but with the Ukrainians and majority of Russians who don't want this war.

Brickowl isn't funding the Russian army, nor condoning it. I don't see how that's "taking the wrong side of history". I usually enjoy what you say on the forum, but these short snipes without any explanation or reason has disappointed me. If you're going to say something like this, explain your stance behind it.

Edit: Just to make myself clear: I'm not against sanctions against Russia. I'm against giving BO the power to block entire countries without being forced to by legal reasons. Until the UK sanctions Russia, I don't think BO should.

Hoddie

BO is a sovereign entity, they already have the power to block entire countries.

It is, I think, a mistake to rely on governments to set the bounds of what is and what is not acceptable. Italy blocked an attempt to kick Russia out of the SWIFT payments system unless it was agreed to make an exception for Italian luxury goods. As though they're more important than standing up to an insane tyrant.

Look, when PayPal are forced to cut Russian users off the block will happen anyway. BO could get ahead of that and show that they stand up for democracy and the victims of a madman whose only interest is to preserve his own wealth and the wealthy of the oligarchs who keep him in power.

Brick-Cat

It would not achieve anything.

nita_rae

> unless it was agreed to make an exception for Italian luxury goods

So how many high end Italian sports cars are being sold in Russia ? As the price of some LEGO sets gets higher and higher, you could almost make the same argument (pro and con).

tons_of_bricks

@Hoddie Where is the democracy if BO forces and chooses who and who we can't sell too?

I am totally with you that we need to fight against an insane tyrant, but what you're asking for is BO to become partly tyrant to fight a tyrant. I don't want BO to force sellers to make the right decision; let them choose for themselves.

nita_rae

As an additional point in this discussion ... several countries have banned Aeroflot from landing or flying over, and Russia is responding in kind (by blocking BA). That is going to impact the cargo capability of flights into Russia. It may cause significant delays moving packages into Russia. There are many dominoes falling, and each one has an effect.

Hoddie

@firestar246 - BO isn't a democracy. It's a company. Within the bounds of law it can do what it wants. It can absolutely block all Russian stores and even Russian buyers if it so chooses.

The point is it's going to happen anyway. The question is does BO wait until someone says it's the right thing to do or do they take the decision for themselves?

tons_of_bricks

@Hoddie I know BO isn't a democracy. You are completely and utterly 200% missing my point. I'm not discussing whether BO can or can't, but whether they should or shouldn't. Like you said, it absolutely has the power and right to block Russia if it wants. But that doesn't mean it should. You are obviously avidly against this power hunger dictator (and rightly so), but yet you want BO to take what can be considered tyrannical action against them (forcing sellers to stop selling to Russia even if their countries still allow it).

Until someone in higher authority tells BO they need to site-wide block Russia, it should be up to the users themselves.

Calibrick

Though BO is out of the UK, its unclear as a service system if any UK imposed sanctions would apply to the site as a whole... I have no doubt admin will do whatever is legal and appropriate.

I concur with the individual seller decision POV... this nightmare our Ukrainian friends and allies are suffering is the fault of the Russian government, not the Russian people. They are folks just like us that live, love, have bad days, have good days, and so on.

One could argue the people permit that government to stay in power, but imagine living in a nation with no-kidding blatant light of day ballot box stuffing, peaceful protesters arrested and disappearing in the dark of night (or light of day), political challengers flat-out assassinated, no free press, and on and on and on... it's a difficult thing.

As an American, I'm horrified and DISGUSTED to see Russian leadership trying to reshape Europe into some twisted vision of revitalizing the USSR through force, terror, and murder. If I sold to Russia in the first place, I immediately would have stopped as the US has sanctioned that nation. I'm pretty sure that's actually the law when a nation sanctions another (I think most exports are now blocked), though I would have done it anyway because I personally see it as the right thing to do. :-)

I personally would prefer to know how best we can help the Ukranians fleeing for their lives and fighting for their right to freedom right now? It's looking more and more like Kiev may fall within the next several days. BIG sigh. :-(

Calibrick

@hoddie, re Italy blocking booting Russia from SWIFT, I think I read that Germany also had objections. Those countries no doubt may suffer some kind of financial consequences, I think, which is what is giving them pause.

BUT I suspect that is coming as they're escalating pretty quick; EU is sanctioning Putin personally as I type this and I would be unsurprised if the US followed suit pretty quickly. I'm hearing that sanctioning a world leader is a pretty huge deal, though honestly, that monster has so many billions stashed already, I fail to see how that will change behavior. :-(

And he broke the worldwide couple of century formal and 3000-year informal Olympic truce, to boot (7 days before, during, and 7 days after: NO war). :-(

Hoddie

@firestar246 - no country has used legal means to force F1 to withdraw the Russian F1 race from the calendar, or UEFA to remove the Champions League final from Russia. Those organisations have decided to be on the right side of history. You don't need a government to tell you right from wrong.

tons_of_bricks

Exactly @Hoddie!!! If we, as citizens, don't need our government to tell us right from wrong, then why do we, as users, need Brickowl to force ban Russia for us all? Let each user make that decision!!!

If I'm going to stop selling to Russia (which I am), I want it to be because I made that decision, not because someone else made it for me!

nita_rae

@Calibrick He doesn't care, he really does not care about the sanctions. Those are intended to make a change over time. His time on this earth is short, and he wants to make massive changes now, with no regard to the cost or the long term effects. I'd like to see him on the receiving end of some of the violence he is perpetrating right now.

Calibrick

Nita, I couldn't agree more, well said.

Area 51 Bricks

Personally I won’t be shipping to Russia or Ukraine simply because there is a very high chance that the package will never reach its destination. But like I said that is my PERSONAL decision and I think (as many have said) that each should have his own decision as wether or not to ship to Russia or anywhere else for that matter. And like some have said the Russian people are not responsible for all the terrible things that their government is doing. Imagine if we were all held responsible for all the things Our government has done. I think the world would be a lot different…

As for BO’s standing in this I think any type of future heated discussion of this type should be talked about elsewhere. BO is supposed to be a place of enjoyment and the forums a place for asking for help and sharing our accomplishments an tips.

saosivert

Hi. I used to be one of a few Russian sellers on BO and now my store is suspended with the following reason:

Your store is currently suspended. Reason: Unfortunately, due to the increasing world wide sanctions on Russia, we are no longer able to suport Russian stores on the Brick Owl platform.

It was nice to be a part of this great lego enthusiast community. I hope this nightmare ends soon.

Hoddie

@saosivert - I hope you'll be back soon, I really do.

The.Lego.Fan

I'm one of the (former/ex-?) Russian sellers here at Brick Owl and I've been seller here for almost a year.

Just imagine how I felt when I saw the same message my colleague posted above. Suspending the store just because my country flag is Russian?

Yes, I wasn't lucky to be born in this country during the murderous Putin's regime. But I have nothing to do with it. I didn't invade Ukraine, didn't vote for Putin. I don't even live in Russia, the store is (was?) being operated from the abroad.
And of course I want this war to end as soon as possible, I don't want the innocent citizens of Ukraine to suffer.

I've been loosing my saving since this war started. We continue facing the severe consequences of the Russian government's actions: the global isolation, rising prices, constant fear, uncertainty about the future. The standard of living is lowering every day. And now I can't sell my goods to anyone (even Russians) just because they are shipped form Russia?

And yet the question arises. What is the actual reason of suspending the store? There were no sanctions suggesting such actions. We're not yet like Iran, DPRK or Cuba. Are the admins just afraid to work with Russian stores? How can a store be even potentially dangerous to anyone if its country flag contains white, red and blue stripes?

I call on the Brick Owl administration to stop this discrimination. It should be only the buyer's decision whether to by from Russia or not. The LEGO enthusiasts community should not be involved into politics and the Russian sellers should be given a chance to sell.

I hope I'd be heard. And I'm sure not only Russian users support me.

Hoddie

@The.Lego.Fan - there may not be any direct sanctions but with most Russian banks cut off from the international system, that effectively removes the ability of western companies to easily trade with Russian companies.

For info, the Belgian post office has stopped sending mail to Russia. I know several major carriers (DHL, etc.) have too. Presumably the restrictions also apply in reverse.

Right now, my thoughts are with those dying in Ukraine, but I think most of us realise that Putin does not speak or act on behalf of all Russians, and it sucks that ordinary people are caught up in this.

Calibrick

@The.Lego.Fan as you probably saw in my earlier post, my heart goes out to the Russian people in addition to the nightmare Ukrainians are going through. None of us can pick where we are born, obviously!

Please note though, this is absolutely **not** BO discrimination (the temporary shuttering of Russian stores). BO is a licensed, legal UK/British business, and their nation (like many western countries) have imposed severe sanctions on Russia as an economic response to the Russian government's terrorist invasion of their sovereign neighbors.

I'm 99.9% sure that is is British law that British companies must impose sanctions when their country imposes sanctions on another nation. In the US, when our country sanctions another, all US companies must also follow the terms of the sanctions. If BO took Russian stores suddenly offline (which it appears), then England imposed sanctions to the level that a small business such as BO is legally obligated to also follow - or they will not be permitted to operate at all.

I think I speak for probably the vast majority of folks when I say that the issue is obviously with the Russian Government and NOT the Russian people - we're all the same and just happen to be born in different places. And I truly am sad to see people just like me are suffering because of acts not of their doing, be it watching their home being blown up, losing loved ones (on either side), or not being able to earn income (on either side) because of this unasked for war.

Unfortunately sanctions are literally the only way other nations can fight back against the Russian government's outright hostile acts - short of WW III - which (I sincerely pray - and I'm agnostic!) NO ONE wants... talk about a lose-lose proposition for everyone on the planet.

Stay well our Russian (and Ukranian!) peers, and may your government decide very VERY soon that these human atrocities are simply not worth the economic pain/international condemnation and just STOP trying to take over their neighbors. Everyone would like to return to normal (Ukraine most of all!) and stop this war and horrific and unnecessary loss of human life (on both sides!). :-(

Area 51 Bricks

Well put @Calibrick

nita_rae

USPS has, as of 9:30 ET this morning, suspended all mail service to Russia.

Calibrick

Wow, thanks for the heads-up, Nita!