A new BrickStore or similar program...

Plastic-Paradise

I am no programmer but I as well as many other sellers need a dependable program similar to BrickStore that will work amongst both venues as well as others. I figured I would start this thread to see if we can get the ball rolling on a replacement. This should be a good spot to give ideas, ask questions, find someone to do it, etc... I will start.

First if I understand BrickLink's TOS properly, building the program to work with BrickLink and Brick Owl is okay providing we don't use their info, correct? If this is the case, Lawrence are you okay with us finding someone to build a program around Brick Owl that uses Brick Owl's info that will also upload to BrickLink and other venues?

The main need for me as far as BrickStore goes is the ability to decipher and keep stockroom items in the stockroom when uploading. It also needs to be able to import from Brick Owl as currently there is no working way to do so.

What kind of costs are we looking at to have someone rebuild it? Is there anyone here capable and willing to do it? What will you charge?

Any ideas about getting a pool going to provide financing for the project?

PP

Stragus

Writing such a program from scratch is a lot of work. Hiring a programmer to do so, that would minimally be a 2-3 months full-time effort, meaning $16000-24000. I don't think sellers would manage to pool that together, for an uncertain outcome.

Someone taking the lead and writing the software on his own, to later sell licenses, would be an option...

Instead, I believe we should pool efforts from various people into an open-source project, and sellers could support the programmers through donations. We already have BrickStore which we could update (despites its numerous flaws, obsolete QT3, no documentation, etc.). Being a programmer myself, I would love to contribute to such a project, but I frankly don't know where to start. I'm aware of at least two people working on an update to BrickStore on their own. So, what should I do, should I really begin a third branch? Can't we just all work together toward the same goal?

Regarding BrickLink's TOS, I think the program should be able to pull information from BrickLink, BrickOwl, and whatever else. The user should be responsible for its own usage of the software (make the BrickLink pull disabled by default, if so required).

budgetkids

@Stragus

If I were you, I would contact the 2 people you know who are working on an updated version. See if one of you 3 can set-up a basic free forum or some means of open communication between everyone.

This way everyone knows what everyone is doing and there is cooperation and coordination.

You are absolutely right, there should not be 3 people working on the same thing, so lets get everyone together and spear head the project.

Chris

Plastic-Paradise

That is my goal here. I am not able to do it myself so I am just trying to get everyone who is interested and those who are capable in one place. I am willing to donate and help in anyway possible. I guess worded it wrong above. I was talking about rebuilding/updating Brickstore.

PP

Timothy_Smith

Before anyone writes anything, you need to read the fine print on API terms and conditions. I think they've written this in such a way that nobody is going to be able to do anything useful.
Take a look 1.2.b for example. It's arbitrary and capricious- who wants to program around that? Section 10 has interesting implications. And Section 6 says they can cut you off at any time for any reason or no reason.

Plastic-Paradise

Brickstore didn't use API before as BrickLink didn't have it correct? Is it not possible to simply redo BrickStore with the fixes and options that everyone needs without using the API?

PP

Timothy_Smith

It certainly would be possible to re-write BrickStore to work correctly with any site's page format. As long as that format doesn't change, the page reader code will work just fine. Whether that usage violates terms and conditions on that site is another matter, but at least you avoid the API restrictions. (There's a restriction on "bots and spiders" that might apply to page scraper apps.)

Rewriting and restoring BrickStore would actually be a relatively easy exercise, as I've mentioned before. You go through it a module at a time, replacing anything that doesn't compile with new custom code so as to avoid outdated library calls or whatever. I don't have any interest in working with that other website, but I do have some programming experience in this area and I'd help a bit, or at least answer questions about it.

Plastic-Paradise

As far as the TOS on the other site, that is why I recommended above that we run it through Brick Owl instead of BrickLink. That way we are not violating any TOS as we are not using their info only Brick Owls.

Timothy_Smith

How are you going to upload data to their site without using their info and data?
You have to use their item numbers to upload, which means working with their catalog data.

As far as I can tell, they don't want anybody doing what you want to do and will try to stop you. Whether threats of lawsuits in Hong Kong is a deterrent is a personal choice, but I'm pretty sure anybody *selling* such a program becomes a special target. Giving the program away for free might be safe in a not-quite-legal sort of way.

Plastic-Paradise

I think the burden of proof would lie on them to prove it. If we are uploading inventory to their website we are not breaking any TOS. They would have to prove we are using their info to upload to a site other than BrickLink. Which my example would not be. My thinking is the program can work something like Brick Packer and automatically match the items we are uploading via Brick Owl to a BrickLink item number prior to uploading it to BrickLink. In that case it should not be against their TOS as we are only using their info to upload to their site. To my understanding, the offsite programs are fine as long as we aren't using BrickLink's info as a source to list elsewhere. Having one software to work across multiple platforms should not impede on their TOS as long as we have the option to list and use a different catalog for the upload to Brick Owl.

PP

Timothy_Smith

Sure, the burden is on them. But nobody wants to get involved in legal matters.

If I read their terms correctly, they don't want the same items listed on their site and listed elsewhere simultaneously. Any tool which allows a user to do that runs afoul of their site terms (IMHO, etc.). If you strictly have different items listed on different sites, then I suppose you're ok. I could be wrong, so consult with a legal expert. Intellectual discussion of coding isn't a violation of anything, so I feel safe answering questions about code specifics whenever we get that far.

A better use of resources might be to improve BrickOwl to the point that other sites are irrelevant.

minithingsforlife

Before anyone writes anything, you need to read the fine print on API terms and conditions. I think they've written this in such a way that nobody is going to be able to do anything useful.
Take a look 1.2.b for example. It's arbitrary and capricious- who wants to program around that? Section 10 has interesting implications. And Section 6 says they can cut you off at any time for any reason or no reason.

Can you tell me which document you are looking at, as the one in this link does not have the section numbers that you are referring to.

http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2216

DagsBricks

Did for me. Also check 4.1.c.

DadsAfol

Despite the legalese in the other site's ToS, they do mean for it to be an extension to the community. The only thing they don't want are applications that divert traffic to an alternate site or offline program, thereby avoiding the fees. I have shared my commercial programs - meaning I explicitly told them how I was going to make money using their API - and the response I got was "no problem". So as long as the new program doesn't actually cause sales to occur outside of the site, I think you are pretty safe.

minithingsforlife

Did for me. Also check 4.1.c.

Oh its just another example of Bricklink not checking whether things work on IE. The bulleted numbers are not present in the IE rendered document.

Brikomania

Perhaps you could contact the developer of BrickStock (based in Brickstore).

http://www.bricklink.com/messageThread.asp?ID=165414 - (hopefully I can spit out this link here - if not just delete it).

Maybe he would be interested in making it compatible with BO too?

Timothy_Smith

Despite the legalese in the other site's ToS, they do mean for it to be an extension to the community.

Yet they state they will attack anybody doing something they don't approve of. Your approval could change in a second if, for example, you were to post something that someone didn't like. If they want their site to be the center of the community, they should have left the T&C alone and changed the site instead.

And who is "they"? Eric can't speak for Mr Jay, or Mr Jay's lawyers. And even a contract signed by the world class legal team doesn't really get you anything, according to Section 6. Terms and conditions can be changed at any time for any reason or no reason, and you have to agree to that ahead of time.

And I'm not sure, but 1.3.h might mean you can't sell the program, as that's selling 'access to the API'.

Plastic-Paradise

Perhaps you could contact the developer of BrickStock (based in Brickstore).

http://www.bricklink.com/messageThread.asp?ID=165414 - (hopefully I can spit out this link here - if not just delete it).

Maybe he would be interested in making it compatible with BO too?

I already did, last night as soon as I noticed it and he is willing. It is on his list of things to do.

PP

DagsBricks

And I'm not sure, but 1.3.h might mean you can't sell the program, as that's selling 'access to the API'.

I don't think so. I think they are saying that you can put a restaurant on their road, you just can't charge a toll to drive down that road. Pretty standard boilerplate.

Brian