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store suspended "Overdue orders and messages "
Almost a month ago, after almost 7 years membership and a normal workflow,
(Average despatch time 1.6 working days, Average message response time 0.4 working days)
”
I get this message :
“Reason: Overdue orders and messages
Please resolve the outstanding issues with your store as soon as possible. Once the issues have been resolved, please reply to this e-mail with an action plan detailing how the issues occurred, and how they will be prevented from reoccurring in the future.”
So I ask Lawrence what it could be. Because I couldn’t find any overdue orders and messages. And search for the issue that occurs the problem. But all the proposals what it could be, returned into negative. The problem is, when I don’t know what the issue occurred, I can’t make an action plan he want.
So this result into mailing between Lawrence and me. Asking for an order id or message Id, which causes the problem. But I get an answers what I can do nothing with, or only standard message: (here the last mail this week)
“We do need to be provided with a valid action plan, and cannot reopen your store, without a valid action plan. The action plan needs to detail “how the issues occurred, and how they will be prevented from reoccurring in the future”. The issues were “Overdue orders and messages”. As you mention, you have already resolved these issues, but have not provide an action plan “detailing how the issues occurred, and how they will be prevented from reoccurring in the future.”.
So I get an message from him, that I already resolved the issues! After I was on holiday with the kids doing nothing
In another email he refers to a conversation on 11-05. Where I though the problem occurs with a standalone mail program and does not update the mailing on the website.
But that return into this.
““It is not a requirement to update the “response needed” status on a message so this is not related.”
Then I thought it was an order, which was not paid yet, because the customer was at the hospital. But orders where only counted when status is payment received.
So how can I make an action plan on this?
Does anyone else got the same problem and how can I solve this? Overdue orders and messages is too general. And works I you know the order or message.
Every platform got their positive and negative things, but with this issue, Bricklink does a better job.
Simon
(Average despatch time 1.6 working days, Average message response time 0.4 working days)
”
I get this message :
“Reason: Overdue orders and messages
Please resolve the outstanding issues with your store as soon as possible. Once the issues have been resolved, please reply to this e-mail with an action plan detailing how the issues occurred, and how they will be prevented from reoccurring in the future.”
So I ask Lawrence what it could be. Because I couldn’t find any overdue orders and messages. And search for the issue that occurs the problem. But all the proposals what it could be, returned into negative. The problem is, when I don’t know what the issue occurred, I can’t make an action plan he want.
So this result into mailing between Lawrence and me. Asking for an order id or message Id, which causes the problem. But I get an answers what I can do nothing with, or only standard message: (here the last mail this week)
“We do need to be provided with a valid action plan, and cannot reopen your store, without a valid action plan. The action plan needs to detail “how the issues occurred, and how they will be prevented from reoccurring in the future”. The issues were “Overdue orders and messages”. As you mention, you have already resolved these issues, but have not provide an action plan “detailing how the issues occurred, and how they will be prevented from reoccurring in the future.”.
So I get an message from him, that I already resolved the issues! After I was on holiday with the kids doing nothing
In another email he refers to a conversation on 11-05. Where I though the problem occurs with a standalone mail program and does not update the mailing on the website.
But that return into this.
““It is not a requirement to update the “response needed” status on a message so this is not related.”
Then I thought it was an order, which was not paid yet, because the customer was at the hospital. But orders where only counted when status is payment received.
So how can I make an action plan on this?
Does anyone else got the same problem and how can I solve this? Overdue orders and messages is too general. And works I you know the order or message.
Every platform got their positive and negative things, but with this issue, Bricklink does a better job.
Simon
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Comments
It may be that the 'Overdue orders and messages' reason is standard text which could mean that there's a problem with one or the other and not necessarily with both. So in that case it could just be about the messages.
This is all guesswork on my behalf.
But if this is how it works, perhaps you need to commit to a reduction in overdue orders and messages.
It could be that you did not close your store while you went away for a few days, in which case you can commit to close next time this happens.
It could be that your average despatch time is set too low and too many orders are being shipped outside of this, in which case you can commit to do better in future and/or change the setting to better reflect the circumstances.
As I say, all guesswork on my part, but it seems that solving the immediate issue isn't enough without also addressing how to prevent it happening again - with the assumption being that if you make a plan but don't stick to it, the consequences of that will be harsher next time.
So, be honest, if you send a few orders outside your public despatch time, or don't reply to messages within a reasonable timescale, perhaps you need to address this.
So you were away on holiday, for how long? More than 5 days? Was you store open or closed?. It could well be that in that time there were to many orders that not got shipped hence triggering the automated action.
Once you got back, you shipped out those orders and hence the issues got solved.
So when looking for those issues now, there is nothing to be found
Maybe looking at the orders from around your holiday en noting what the despatch times were on those could reveil something.
All this is also an assumption.
What I do agree upon is that it should be possible to get a clearer answer from BrickOwl when asking what the issues were (which orders/messages).
I remember from an earlier message that they also were not provided with a clear answer on what the problem really was.
In that case all the text they got was that there were issues and a plan was needed.
As a side note, it does not matter how long you have been around, all rules apply equally to every one, no favouring long time stores over new ones.
And that it now from the point of view of Wereldstenen is a little strange that an action plan should be produced for unknown issues. As I read it, Wereldstenen is not against the action plan, but I think he is reasonable in his demand to know more details about those "issues". Just the "Overdue orders and messages" might be a little to general.
I was on Holiday last week. The shop is closed since 7 May and still closed... I really don't know how to solve this. I don't get any special detail from Lawrence, where it went wrong. The trust in this site is a bit gone now. I understand that rules can be apply equally to everyone. But with almost 7 years membership and a normal workflow, no problems before, this hardly seems fair.
Define 7 years of normal workflow result in Average despatch time 1.6 working days.
I picked the LEGO on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. And then 7 May-> store suspended and closed "Overdue orders and messages.
Holiday was just last week and got nothing to do with the shop. The shop was already suspended.
It would be nice that Lawrence explain in detail, what went wrong here and open my shop. So we can learn the BO system. Overdue orders and messages is too general. On Bricklink you know exactly which order cause the problem.
We have something to celebrate. It's one month ago, that my shop is closed. I send a new email to Lawrence asking him, which order or message causes the problem. Without this info, I can't provide any action plan for him.
If I know the problem, I will let you all know. Because It can happen to everyone. For now my shop is still closed.
It's a pitty and a heavy punishment, but till now it's a mistery for me.
I focus now on other LEGO platorms.
Is there something else playing? Or maybe Lawrence is not in the position to respond quickly? Anyone heard from him lately?
If a store is shipping orders beyond the stated dispatch window, or not responding to messages in a timely manner, that's the problem. If the owner isn't even aware that that's what they're doing, big problem, because how can you fix something you don't even acknowledge?
As @Hoddie points out, we do require that stores resolve issues independently and provide action plans
I've been reading and keeping an eye on this topic and I must point out, that I am confused.
Do I understand correctly, that there is no clear information why a store has been closed and do I understand correctly that it has not been pointed out, what was the actual cause?
By reading this conversation, I have a strong feeling that the store owner currently has not understood it. Therefor it is not clear, how to solve the issue (since the issue is not known) and what kind of actionplan to take (if the root cause is not understood).
I also must note from my observations, that there might be some translation issues...
I would understand, if there are problems with customers and there are bad feedbacks present, but with this store feedback this sound quite well operating store and does not seem to fit with a bad profile...
I like the community and I don't want to see "lost in translation" events with good fellas
A bit OT:
I want BO to be greater than BL and we need to get more sellers here. Just few days ago I had to make my first order from BL since BO just didn't have enaugh of those parts (with reasonable price) across multiple sellers available (LEGO Blue Flat Panel 5 x 11 (64782)). I needed 10 of those panels in blue in EU (due to taxes ofcourse)... So I think we need every seller here that we got and keep them, if the service in general is good.
I agree with you that helping each other, like we tried here in this topic, is benificial for all of us sellers.
I have no idea if this is what's happened, but consider:
Store says it ships within 1-2 days of order. However, 1 in every 10 actually takes 3 or more days to ship, each accruing a black mark. After a pre-determined number of black marks the store suspension protocol is triggered.
Now, if the seller is aware that they ship 1 in every 10 outside of their stated dispatch window, they could easily say "okay, yeah, I could improve on that and I will do" or otherwise agree to change the setting. But if they haven't noticed that they ship so many outside of the window, they wouldn't know what they've done wrong and couldn't reasonably commit to fixing something they hadn't even noticed or been aware of.
As I said, I have no clue if this is what's happened, I'm just throwing something up in the air, maybe the OP can do some digging of their own.
To the community: Based on an accidental experience here, I do know first-hand that @Lawrence is quite specific about any issues and the response required to resolve and close them (at least in my opinion it was more than enough information to understand and resolve it.
Last year, I had a customer submit an issue report against my store because they had put the wrong address for shipping in BO and they didn't know how to change it - so not really an issue in terms of the meaning of that report, but an issue to them certainly <s> - so I did get to experience the issue submittal process and the closure resolution <s>). It was very clear and to me (as a native English speaker) simple to address to then have removed.
I don't know if that makes anyone feel better about issue and closure processes at all, but my own personal experiences here have earned a ton of trust with BO. So I'm all good with however the process works.
And consider this: Closing stores costs BO money, don't forget. It is in the site's self-interest to have open, successful, and awesome stores. Businesses will always do what is in their self interest (that, death, and taxes are life's sureties! <s>)... so there is clearly a miscommunication of some kind IMHO. I do not think for a moment stores are closed without reasonable cause against documented rules, and I think they are likely reopened rapidly once resolution plans are submitted and executed. We've seen that ourselves via older forum posts on this topic.
This is my personal opinion only, of course, and I mean no offense to the OP to be clear. :-)
All I know, is that the OP sounds to be interested in knowing the issue and not realizing or understanding the issue and not getting a reply, that would clarify it to the OP.
I also believe, that BO has given a reply that would be understandable for most of the sellers, but we have to concider that the reply has not been clear for the OP.
And last, but not least - I fully understand the legal thing about discussing the details and nobody wants to openly "clean eachothers dirty underware", but there must be a way for us, the community, to help to solve this issue. There seem to be a lot of backers here who want to solve it without stepping over any legal boundaries. Everyones intentions are just to just keep the community happy all together
Do you need to know exactly which order this relates to? Surely you can provide Lawrence with a summary of your workflow for processing orders and replying to messages without this?
Obviously for you own peace of mind it would be great to know if you had fallen down with a particular customer, but if an action plan is needed I don't see why you can't send one.
'All orders are picked and posted first class Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Messages are linked to my email to notify me as soon as they arrive. All messages will read and responded to the same day, then status updated on the site. If this requires a change to an order, then this also is actioned same day. Errors, omissions and refunds are dealt with on a case, by case basis, but a response will always be given to the buyer within 24 hours'
Something along these lines obviously tailored to your circumstances, but reflecting both your store terms and the settings on your storefront. Same thing you would do if there was an issue at work and your manager needed a plan for a solution you don't necessarily need to know which colleague/customer/transaction was the issue (although I can fully understand why you may want to), but providing the boss with a solution to correct/improve the process so he knows what is happening would still be needed.
Have a think about anything that could have been a sticking point in the recent months, jot down how that may have impacted on your normal workflow, at least then you will have some kind of plan to discuss, rather than waiting for more information that you may not get.
My personal experiences have given me a level of trust in BO. My gut feeling is that there were orders and/or messages that didn't meet deadlines. There may not have been any outstanding at the time the suspension was applied, but that doesn't mean that there hadn't been any previously. And I can well believe that there is a translation issue at play here. If it was me I would go through the processing of my orders with a fine tooth comb because if there weren't any that broke my dispatch time that would prove it.
I did not know there was such a lot discusion about this case and yes, my shop is still closed.
The first mail I get from the BO system was:
"Your store (Wereldstenen) has been suspended.
Reason: Overdue orders and messages
Please resolve the outstanding issues with your store as soon as possible. Once the issues have been resolved, please reply to this e-mail with an action plan detailing how the issues occurred, and how they will be prevented from reoccurring in the future.
"
Of course, if I know the problem. Lawrence get an action plan from me, the same day and never put the issue in the forum asking for help and tips.
So I got "Overdue orders and message" message in the mail, after I was done with my orders that day, knowing everything was just fine. I always only open my order page on BO, doing the job and reply on messages in outlook.
So I investigate and discus with Lawrence what it could be for example:
"Hi James,
Do you have any information on your site, a howto Overdue orders and messages comes up and run into store suspension?
And can you tell me, which order number or message-id run into this? I can’t reproduce the system error anymore.
Every time I think it is. You say it’s not related or does not count for overdue orders.
Can it be this one? Order #1162109
It was a big order. With some credit.
Simon
"
His reaction
"Hello,
Your store does not have any overdue orders, you would need to refer back to the messages sent between ourselves and yourselves for the actions that you need to take for your store to be reopened.
Lawrence James
"
So how can I make action plan detailing how the issues occurred, and how they will be prevented from reoccurring in the future?
From 22 May, I got the last standard message from him asking for a valid actionplan....
I saw a little message in this forum from Lawrence.
It would be nice to everyone, that he explain in general what went wrong here and explain to me in detail on the mail where the error occurred, so I can make an action plan.
For now my shop is still closed.
Go back through your orders, count the number of days between the date payment was received and the date you shipped the order. Count how many times you exceeded your stated shipping time. If this number begins to stack up, there's your problem.
Similarly, check how many days it took to respond to messages.
It'll take some work, but if you want your store to re-open here and prevent it from being closed again in future, it seems like that work will be necessary.
Stores are only suspended for overdue orders, if there are currently overdue orders. Overdue orders are shown to the store by a yellow banner on every single page in their store. This is not to say that we suspend every store everytime they have a single overdue order, just to say that we do not suspend stores for historical overdue orders.
Similarly, we do not suspend stores for having messages they took too long to reply to, which are no longer overdue. Stores are only suspended for overdue messages if they have overdue messages. Unanswered messages are indicated by a number next to your user profile, and on the store dashboard. We require stores to respond to messages within 48 working hours, and make a determination as to if messages do not need a response. We do not suspend stores for having a large amount of unanswered messages, if those messages do not require an answer, such as thank you messages.
In relation to this specific case, I can confirm that there are 20 or so back and forth messages between ourselves, so I would warn the above excerpts may not give an accurate representation of the situation.
The first messages from BO were automated messages, stated in more or less generic terms, from which it is not possible to determine exactly what the problem is. In consequtive messages this has not been clarified, unfortunately. Resulting in the store still suspended.
So I concur with the question of Wereldstenen: how to provide an action plan if you do not know the issue?
Please lift the suspension of the store, it has been long enough now. Also please provide accurate information on suspension. Suspending a store is a harsh method and should not be done lightly.
With great power comes great responsibility.
The paying customers - ultimately - are the site's buyers not the site's sellers, and if they keep getting bad experiences through dealing with bad sellers, eventually they'll stop buying. Sometimes all it takes is one bad seller and a buyer can be lost forever.
This is just generally speaking and not speaking about OP store (I have no personal experience in that store).
Do I understand correctly, that the issue with the OP store was just because of unresponded messages? For me it took about a year to figure out, that sometimes there are simple "Thanks" and "Understood" messages with the "Response needed" flag and that I can mark them as no response needed... Sometimes there are quite random messages and if the OP store had the same messages just flagged and the store didn't pay attention to that, then that isn't so bad in my opinion.
Personally I try to use this tick "response needed" only when I actually wait for a reply. Otherwise I remove the tick from that box.
There is always something in between, and it is called communication.
This talk about "bad" sellers.. do you have any idea what makes a seller "bad"? And also, if you eliminate all "bad" sellers that does not mean that the left over sellers are "good". Good only exists because there is also bad. Fact of life. No bad, no good. No dark, no light. Many have tried to eliminate sin, and did not succeed simply because it is not possible without eliminating everything else too.
So.. no not rough, but realistic.
And yes, I am perfectly fine with a privately or corporately-owned web site setting its own rules - they own it. They invested the money, they coded it, they built the database, they provide the services... it's their virtual world. I myself made a business decision that their rules to ME were reasonable and chose to share my profits here to sell on the platform. If I decide at some point I disagree with them, I can raise my concern, and from there its resolved or I decide its not in my business's best interests to remain. That strikes me as a basic web economy and typical business.
In return, the platforms commits to ensuring everyone is playing by the same rules so as to not scare customers away from the platform as a whole. It's not unreasonable to me - again, my personal POV.
In my years here, I have seen this site be very open-minded to seller's inputs and has really gone out of their way to iteratively improve (sometimes shockingly fast) with new features, etc., based on seller inputs. I've seen admins who have very patiently help me set up my store, admins who accept my ideas and implement them, and admins who super politely tell me when an idea I have isn't in the site's best interest (aka shoot my idea down <s>). Which is fine - because I don't own it. I didn't invest tens of thousands of hours and dollars into it. So I'll continue to super-respectfully defend it. :-)
I will say I think this has grown way out of proportion... the admin gave a pretty reasonable response in my respectful opinion in their second post. I couple that with my own personal experience in the system here and am very comfortable that while mistakes are ALWAYS possible (we're all human), I continue to firmly believe a store suspension is of the utmost last resort. I can't imagine for a second after no less than 40 posts on this topic, the challenges with the OP haven't been reviewed microscopically at the BO level to ensure there wasn't an error. Closing good stores arbitrarily is counter to the purpose of the site and the SITE'S bottom line and profits - objectively, it's simply *not* in its business interest. :-)
Back to the OP though... the admin's response, while respecting privacy and avoiding specifics, said something pretty clear: "Stores are only suspended for overdue orders, if there ARE currently overdue orders... Stores are only suspended for overdue messages if there ARE currently overdue messages." Somehow, somewhere the system clearly thinks there is an overdue order OR MESSAGE remaining open. And they said do not close a store for not responding to "thank you" message, as an example.
If the store remains closed, there appears to be an overdue order or message - this usually appears on the counter on top, as we all know. Is the counter at 0 after they finish the day's order fills, as an example? Did they submit the action plan to ensure the issue won't recur (usually the second part to getting the store reopened)? With 20-ish messages in back and forths, there's clearly a communication problem.
To the OP: It seems the bottom line to reopen (in the earnest spirit of trying to help):
Step 1: Ensure your counter by HELLO, NAME is at zero (if not, fill the open orders and answer any unanswered messages or mark as no response required).
Step 2: Submit an action plan to prevent recurrence of whatever the problem was (which can likely be a few sentences), e.g., if the store was accidentally left open during vacation or there was an unexpected power outage for days and orders were filled really late, "Shared store admin with a trusted family member in another area who can close the store in my planned or unplanned absence when I cannot access a computer" is one example. Were messages unanswered while the store was open? Perhaps "Changed internal process to ensure messages are viewed and responded to every 48 hours at a minimum. Set a Google Calendar reminder to ensure this occurs at a standard day and time." Just examples - action plans don't have to be complicated to write or to implement, they just need to mitigate the risk.
Step 3: Offline, follow the plan and return to making $$ :-)
R,
Sandy
That is the whole problem here. At the moment an issue arises you indeed get banners to say so.
I still think BO should be able to state in more detail (not to us but to the OP) what the issue was.
So which orders were dispatched to late, and which messages were not answered quick enough.
From a database point of view it should be easy to do.
On the other hand, someone suggested it, the OP could make a timelime himself. Look at all orders going back a week or 2 before the closure and take a good look at the dispatch time. Yes that will take some work but maybe also can give the needed answer. Same for the messages.
And yes BO is, in the end, a dictatorship, as is any store and marketplace. But on BO you at least have the option to say so.
The rules are set by the owner, the community can try to change those rules, but in the end it's the owners choice to implement suggested changes, or not.
As a user you can either abide by them, or don't be a user.
So, I think I will consider building an inventory here of "many" of just a few items which then will be counted by BO as good behaviour. I have never done that before though, since 2006 I have had a store on BL with special items pat pend period differentiating in mold types and other characteristics. Currently slowly rebuilding inventory from scratch again, so I think that might be an action plan lol.
Anyone any ideas about where to purchase large quantities of lego for low prices?
If you want changes, make a suggestion, explain why you think it would improve things - with something better than just "this is how BL does it". Maybe other users will like your suggestion and line up behind you, maybe they won't. You don't know unless you try. BO has a good track record of implementing suggestions, certainly a much better one than BL.
BL has terrible customer support, awful compliance with legislation, treats its volunteers with contempt, arbitrarily bans users depending on the mood of the admin at any given time, often refuses to adhere to its own rules and terms, and allows sellers to get away with price manipulation, listings abuse and demonstrably illegal behaviour. BL puts immediate gain ahead of absolutely everything.
BO <> BL. Thankfully.
I have no doubt that BO will work just fine if I fall into line with the sites focus. That is simply how the world works. Having said that, obviously there will be things I like and don't like, hence the expression of opinions and making suggestions. I don't care if these suggestions are implemented or not, I will just take it as it is.
I've cleaned out my inventory and start from scratch again. Figuring out a top 5 or top 10 of best selling items and consider going for bulk on them. It's all about quantity here.