… A Dilemma

Graham

I have received an order from EU with a note attached "please set the customvalue at $xx" which is 25% less than the order and I don't know what to do?

In the US this is a serious offence - doesn't matter how big or small the ammount is

Anyone else dealt with an issue like this?

Graham

Especially as they read this note in my shipping method(s)

"Please note: - Customs duty charged (if any) by your Country as well as any related fees, is your responsibility"

Honesty and Integrity v's a potential negative remark - I've decided what's more important already.

So we'll see...

Hoddie

Not on BO but on eBay I used to get requests like that all the time. I can only speak about it from a UK perspective, where law holds the importer/purchaser responsible for the information that's declared on the customs notice. If UK customs suspect the value is under-declared they may either return the package to the sender or otherwise seize and destroy it. In my experience this is extremely rare, especially when the value of the package is not easily determined (as is the case with loose Lego).

In practice, the worst that could happen is that customs will disregard the declared value and ask the buyer to pay Import Tax based on their own determined value. Either they pay or the package is returned to you.

Whether or not your own customs authorities will hold you responsible for under-declaring, especially where packages are subsequently returned, I really don't know.

Thor

Simple answer... Don't do it! Apart from being illegal, it is also unfair to other sellers who do play by the rules. Customs fraud also increases the chances of your package being delayed or confiscated by customs, and the buyer filing a PayPal claim for non-receipt.

You could try to nicely explain to your buyer why customs fraud is wrong or why you won't do it. Or just ignore their request. In the past, when I tried to politely explain why I had to decline these requests, many buyers attempted to argue the issue with me. Some even went so far as to say they would not buy from me again in the future. And a few times the requests I just ignored were followed by an email from the buyer complaining about them having to pay customs to pick up their package and demanding I reimburse them or else they would file a PayPal claim. I always LOVED these threats because the threat itself contains an admission that they received their order.

Thor

Thor

According to past conversations I have had with customs officials in the USA and the UK about this very issue, LEGO is now classified as one of those goods with above-average rates of under-declaring value. They have caught on to this trick. There is also a lot more they can do than just returning the package or asking the buyer to pay the tax on their redetermined valuation. They can - and have - put repeat offenders on red lists so that all their incoming and outgoing packages are flagged for increased scrutiny. There have also been a few cases where habitual offenders have lost their right to send and receive international parcels. This is still rare, but it is increasing as customs clamps down on the practice of customs fraud. All government agencies are looking for ways to raise revenues these days without increasing taxes. And tighter enforcement of existing tax laws is one of the most obvious ways to do so.

Graham

In the US, I believe it's a fellony - the USPS is a government agency.

It's also integrity - so yes Thor I shan't do it!

Amazing this is the first time I have been asked, since I started selling on any venue in 6 years!

Hoddie

"There have also been a few cases where habitual offenders have lost their right to send and receive international parcels."

As someone who used to work at HMRC I'm pretty sure this isn't true. I imagine only a court would have the power to decide something like that, and I'm reasonably sure it'd be against somebody's basic rights to prevent them from using the mail system. There are absolutely lists of addresses who will have their mail scrutinised more than others, but in truth there are entire shipments of mail that make it through customs without even a cursory examination. There's just so much mail it's simply not practical to check every customs declaration.

Thor

The decision is a matter of administrative law and procedure. The courts do not get involved unless all administrative appeals are exhausted. And the accused has the right to a hearing and to defend himself. At least this is how it works in the USA. Rights can obviously be lost or limited if you are convicted of violating the law. And while only a small percentage of packages are actually opened or searched, most packages these days are scanned and compared with a computer database. Particularly after 9-11. If the name or address of the sender or recipient or declared contents raises a red flag, the package will usually be set aside for increased scrutiny.

Graham

@Hoddie

Being from England, I can assure you it is very different here, you are signing a declaration - most folks are unaware of how significant a signature is.

When you sign a declaration and it is found false… well in this case it would be akin to falsely filing a tax return.

In UK you have a small stick on form, hand written and on which you could sign M. Mouse - the post office wouldn't even notice!

In the US hand written forms are with several duplicates, the top one is kept by the Government, postage on line is stored in a database.. name address ip address all stored!

Very different!

Graham

polarbomber

you could always mark the value in bitcoin , 1 btc = $945
or
1kwd (kuwati dollars )=$3.51
should cause endless fun in custom house

budgetkids

The customs form specifically dictates USD (United States Dollar) so we can't use another currency on it.

Graham

Fortunately the buyer seems to have accepted my explanation

this does give rise to yet another suggestion!
(@Admin) - what about some general terms that apply to all stores somewhere on the site?

There are a few that apply equally to all.

It came up earlier about buyers being upset at being charged duty, which is why I added that wording to "note" in shipping

Hoddie

I got a little lost in this conversation so just to clarify, as noted above I was speaking about the UK side of things only, and I have some experience with this both as a former eBay seller and an ex-employee of HM Revenue & Customs.

The UK customs authorities hold the importer responsible for the information on the customs label. If the person sending the parcel from the US to the UK puts an incorrect value on the label, it is the importer/buyer/customer who is held responsible. Most often they will be asked to pay duty (and possibly VAT) on a value determined by HMRC, or have the option of returning the parcel to the original sender. On rare occasions a parcel may be seized and destroyed. I've never heard of any UK citizen being prevented from sending or receiving international mail, and I'm reasonably sure that such a decision could only be made in the UK by the courts and not HMRC/the Post Office.

Post coming in to the UK from reasonably trusted sources, which includes the USPS, is not checked on a parcel-by-parcel basis except where prior received intelligence suggests it needs to be, or where random shipments are selected for scrutiny, or perhaps where volumes are light.

The other week I drove from France onto the Eurostar and drove off the train in Folkestone, England, and at no point did anyone even ask to see my passport, never mind inspect the car. We were waved through at French customs and the booths at the UK border weren't even manned. The road from there just led to the motorway network. The two countries are members of the EU which guarantees free movement, but the UK is not a member of the Schengen zone and as such people coming into the country from France should supposedly have their passport checked. I could have travelled from Andorra on the French border (which is outside the EU) through to England with a car full of goods on which no EU duty had been paid, and no-one would have been any the wiser.

The fact it that UK customs (and now the separate Border Force) is intelligence-led because they simply do not have the resources to man every point of entry, never mind the resources to check every customs declaration on every parcel.

Thor

My comments mostly dealt with the US side of things. Although I did have a series of email exchanges a few years back with an agent from HMRC. She was very interested in learning more about this problem and my specific experiences with customs fraud, particularly involving UK residents. She also confirmed that HMRC maintains a computerized database to flag higher risk goods and individuals. She also gave me the instructions on where and how to report anyone who requested customs fraud.

I don't know about UK administrative law. But here in the USA many things can be adjudicated on an administrative level without involving the courts. And I do know for a fact that there have been US individuals and firms who have had their right to send and receive overseas packages restricted or suspended. In fact, I recall seeing that specific remedy when reviewing the US customs regulations.

Thor