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I've closed my shop because of bad Brick Owl service
... because I cannot set a maximum lot value. I've discussed this a couple of times with the owners of this site, but unfortunately they said that 'limiting the maximum numbers of lots is not a good service' and therefore they denied my request to make it possible to set lot limits.
To all forum readers: I'ld like to express that my previous forum posts about this subject were deleted by Lawrence, which I consider as as form of censorship.
1) why are opinions like my own not allowed on the forum? I thought BO is in the UK, not in the USSR from 1970. (But perhaps because of the Brexit UK based companies now think that they can rule the world?) I really don't know.
2) sellers bring the money to BO. Without sellers there are no buyers. Without buyers the owners of BO would have no income at all. Why does BO limit sellers?
BO: please make it possible to set a lot limit and if you don't like this idea for yourself, please allow public discussion in the forum.
This post is saved. In case my post will be deleted by the BO managers, you can check it on Reddit. Search for posts from Polder64.
To all forum readers: I'ld like to express that my previous forum posts about this subject were deleted by Lawrence, which I consider as as form of censorship.
1) why are opinions like my own not allowed on the forum? I thought BO is in the UK, not in the USSR from 1970. (But perhaps because of the Brexit UK based companies now think that they can rule the world?) I really don't know.
2) sellers bring the money to BO. Without sellers there are no buyers. Without buyers the owners of BO would have no income at all. Why does BO limit sellers?
BO: please make it possible to set a lot limit and if you don't like this idea for yourself, please allow public discussion in the forum.
This post is saved. In case my post will be deleted by the BO managers, you can check it on Reddit. Search for posts from Polder64.
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Comments
So more like you've not got your own way and have had a tantrum about it. Not for the first time either.
You do come across quite aggressive, accusatory and hostile towards admin on this forum.
I can also see your previous posts on the subject, so don't know what you're ranting about. Admin here have always been very responsive to ideas and improvements. They just don't agree with you on this one.
And for what it's worth I don't want lot limits.
For the record I don't need lot limits.
I know on the other site someone got their entire inventory ruined because someone placed a fake order and didn't pay (and we're talking thousands of lots), because of the size of the order the seller/BL were unable to get it to upload back into their store - took several weeks to sort out.
That is the only genuine reason I can see for placing a limit on lots - to prevent that sort of thing from happening.
About the lot limits, this is one of the thing that frustrates buyers more than anything. Lawrence is trying to create a marketplace to make buyers feel welcomed. From a buyers perspective, they absolutely do NOT want to see lot limits, and it's the one thing you see posted on BL forums constantly from buyers in frustration. So in the similar train of thought where you say that sellers bring in revenue for BrickOwl - in reality, it's the buyers who bring that in. So it's in BrickOwl's best interest as well to provide an enjoyable experience for buyers. Just my 2 cents on that.
With that said, I echo many of the folks above, though I think it was Hoddie who said it the most clearly - that is not poor or bad service, that is an unsupported feature. Big, huge, significant difference IMHO.
This is the owner/admin's world - we just pay a portion of our sales to use their playground. And we have the advantage of having a truly phenomenal owner/admin who goes out of their way to implement at least 95% of the nitty to significant suggestions we all throw out there. Objectively, I call that pretty extraordinary! :-)
Without getting into the pros and cons of lot limits (if BO said nope, then it's just nope and is what it is), you have a business decision to make, it seems to me. But it's that simple - it's not reason to bash the owner/admin simply because they do not wish to implement a feature you requested. I've had plenty rejected, believe me - but I still am super grateful for the amazing service and how much programming they've done on this site based purely on ideas I (and so many others) threw out there! :-) I truly do not think you get that ANYWHERE else for this type of sales platform. Long live BO, as far as I'm concerned.
It seems like you need to make a biz decision - do the sales you make here offset whatever affect not having lot limits has on your business? If no, you should close your store here. If yes, then it's a business challenge you modify your processes to align with. It's really pretty simple.
I think this thread makes pretty clear (I notice a lot of folks that chimed in here have sold for ages here and on BL) that the owner/admin has a hard-earned and well-deserved fan club.
And I do hope you reconsider your view of being "censored" - maybe you hadn't seen the admin's explanation yet, as well as leaving here. Every seller here (that means you) is a valuable, important member of this community! Maybe the next idea makes good business sense to the owner and they roll with it, ya know? :-)
And yes I agree - I can see no reason for lot limits on this site! With some of the silly limits sellers place on the other site it's almost like they don't want to actually sell their Lego!
And there is no way to see those items at a glance, you can only spot them by going through the entire inventory one by one (no the "Instant Checkout Unavailable" will not show all these items).
Maybe that is no problem for US sellers, but for EU sellers (Dutch at least) that can be a huge difference.
Here on BO I haven't seen that, not sure how it works.
"An order cannot be placed here without first being payed for"
Maybe that is true for most sellers, but many sellers offer IBAN (and maybe there are more offsite/non instant payment options) as payment option and there is no connection between such a payment and the order, so the order can be placed and paid later
Back to the OP.
All though I don't agree, having read the thread that Lawrence posted and finding the threads that lead to that topic I can understand why she wants limits.
And I think she should be proud that she can run a store like she does.
But that doesn't mean that the statements from her are correct and I don't get why she did not respond to the earlier thread and makes the same accusations again, all though they aren't correct and explained before.
I think Lawrence does a great job with BrickOwl and the ideas and requests he gets from us (buyers and sellers). And I agree with all that don't want lot limits
@BasKrie Since I don't offer IBAN, I was not aware that that works differently.
Especially thanks to @Calibrick who went a little beyond the overall opinion here that says (in my own words) "why are you complaining, if you don't like go elsewhere!".
I've been accused of being rude or aggressive in my original post, but I felt that some of the posts in this discussion are ignorant and/or aggressive as well. I don't want to emphasize this, it's just an observation.
Let's return to the basics.
My point is this: as a seller you can set all sorts of restrictions for the buyer:
1) minimum lot average (upfront not recommended by BO: "Warning: This does not provide a good customer experience and should only rarely be used"v)
2) minimum order value
3) maximum order value
4) and you can also set dimensions & volume limits in the shipping methods and for each shipping method you can also set a maximum order value.
The answer from BO that lot limits are a no-go because they are limiting the buyer is not viable because there are other ways a seller can limit purchases from a store, which are allowed - see above.
My question remains: why is BO prohibiting lot limits while at the same time BO allows all the other restrictions mentioned above? Why can't BO leave such decisions to the seller - even if they (BO) think it's not a good service?
TL;DR
Why does BO forbid a lot limit while at the same time they allow at least 4 other limits set by the seller?
Me personally, my issue wasn't so much your request of lot limits, but your tone towards the admin here when he denied the request and your false accusations towards him about deleting your previous posts.
BL has 11,785 open stores while BO only have only 1,477. So when it comes to customer experience you have far more options to choose from on BL than on BO. Fact.
And in my own country there are 930 active stores on BL - compare this to 1,477 stores world wide on BO....
I like the comment of @BasKrie where he (she?) addresses me as a female, probably because of my Parker avatar from the Hidden Side.
I'm born with XY chromosomes, so I'm 'technically' a male. But emotionally I feel more like a woman. I want to be what I am/feel. Currently my status is undecided :-)
I'm not suggesting you're disreputable, I understand that you're simply trying to manage your time, but it only takes a cursory read of the BL forum to find furious buyers who are having issues spending their cash due to limits, additional fees and (to them) ridiculous store terms.
BO is intended to offer a streamlined buyer experience. Few buyers will understand the reasons behind a maximum lot limit.
And glad that you are responding in this thread.
I don't like the limits in general, as far as it limits the buyer doing an order. I think that all those limits should be lifted.
An average lot limit is the worst, some sellers have such low item counts that the average is (almost) impossible to get to.
So instead of getting more limits I would like to see them all gone
A minimum order I can understand, but sellers could use shipping options to get the same result (more money per order), but I can see that that would be hard to do for US sellers (with all the shipping zones they have).
I don't see 4 as a buying limit. Dimension and volume limits are needed for correct shipping. Otherwise you could not differentiate between letter and parcel shipping. If this wasn't in place, all shipments would have to be done as parcel (not very cost friendly).
And yes you can set a maximum order value, but I use it to limit between untracked, tracked and insured (I don't mind shipping a €5 order without tracking, but a €500 order surely will have to be shipped insured)
This is not limiting the buyer in anyway, only shipping gets more expensive from one option to the other.
The fact that BL is bigger does not say much as far as customer experience goes, it only means they are bigger. BL has been around way longer than BO (more than 10 years difference) and Lego fans seem to stick with what they know, there are not many that leave what they know for something new
Looking at both fora there are way less issues mentioned here than on BL, maybe that is better indication for good customer experience than the size.
Sometimes it would be nice if BO would get bigger (sellers and buyers), but on the other hand it could mean that bad buyers and sellers will get here to and I don't think that is the best thing for all.
Many of the sellers here are also on BL. Why so hateful about BL?
Repeat my question: Why does BO forbid a lot limit while at the same time they allow at least 4 other limits set by the seller?
Only Lawrence can answer this but he chooses to remain silent so far......
That's me being hyperbolic, but having 4 limits already is not reason enough to introduce a 5th. That kind of logic will get you nowhere.
BL sucks. I don't buy or sell there anymore precisely because of the abuse of fees, limits and illegal terms. Feedback abuse is also rife.
I don't think you're going to win this one, and burning bridges on the way out is never a classy move. Honestly though, good luck with your bricks whatever you decide to do.
All the best to you, I dont think you will find the answer your looking for
Coming on the forum and slinging ridiculous accusations at BO/admin certainly doesn't help.
But that aside, you said yourself that you have discussed it with admin a couple of times... and he's declined it both times.
Having read through this post and the previous post on the same subject, besides admin not agreeing with you, I haven't actually seen one seller agree with you either.
Yet you still persist... I just don't know what more you expect?
It seems based on other sellers comments, I don't see a groundswell of support for this concept, either... I haven't commented on my personal view re lot limits, but here it is: when I buy, I do not buy from any store on any platform that sets limits (and I used to buy a lot, blowing thousands of dollars in parting out sets). Why? It was a pain in the butt from a buyer POV, and struck me as being seller-centric vs. buyer-center. As the buyer and customer, I always felt when I'm paying it should be ALL about me (I suspect every customer feels that way in real life <s>) - why buy from someone with limits when there are so many others that do not set them?
Re seller support here, I'm assuming you mean re the subject of lot limits - that's just a business use case disagreement. The groove here on BO is far more casual and customer-centric than it is on BL (and I do have years of experience over there from a buyer POV). Objectively, it should be that way - would you expect to see lot limits shopping at other online retailers? Wal-Mart? Ikea? Amazon? It's a similar customer perspective, so the owner/admin has made a business decision based on the overall platform's best interest (as they are the most vested and experienced in BO's customer base than all of us put together <s>).
If you mean the gentle sniping/blunt responses to your original post, objectively, you did come in guns blazing with a pretty provocative post as worded (and an inaccurate title - perhaps or even likely unintentionally if you hadn't seen admin's answer to your other post). Some of that could be English may not be your first language if you are native to the country you sell from; some of that could be anger, perceiving censorship (you later learned there was none) and unhappy you were told the feature you want is a no go; some of that could be you are simply a blunt speaker. No one can tell intent from words on the Internet, obviously! :-)
There is a lot of respect for the owner/admin here as you can see, but that takes nothing from you - that should instead inform you, ya know? Clearly they know what is best for their own site, and have earned a lot of love from a lot of sellers. BL can't necessarily say that with they constant state of change... All this defense objectively says they're a pretty straight shooter and a really good person to work with. And in a business situation (especially in a customer service industry, as we all are), coming in with such a strong, aggressive approach rarely yields good results in my experience. People can get defensive, etc., when it could have been a more positive experience for all if approached differently. Flies, honey, and vinegar - and knowing when to accept a situation is what it is (my humble opinion, only). :-)
There's a point to let things go and accept you simply cannot get what you want. That was when the admin/owner politely said "limiting the maximum numbers of lots is not a good service." As I said I think earlier, I've had plenty of ideas respectfully and nicely shot down by my peers here (always educating with great reasons - BO isn't here to serve me, personally, obviously! <s>) and/or the admin/owner- I accept there are good reasons for this and let the explanation they choose to provide stand (when realistically, they could simply ignore me or just say "nope").
Now if your intent (none of us know anyone else's intent, right? <s>) was really to drum up some public peer support to reapproach the admin/owner on the subject under the context of "hey, this is more popular than you may realize, maybe it should be reconsidered?", I recommend a different approach in the future (I hope you don't mind!). This is just a respectful suggestion - a more positive way to approach this may be like, Hey folks, I've recommended max lot limits and have been advised that's not for this site... am wondering if other sellers besides I would really like to see it and why? If so, please comment here and upvote this thread... if there is enough interest, perhaps the admin will reconsider later. Or some such. :-)
Again, just a suggestion! :-) If things start or are perceived as aggressive, one tends to get equally aggressive or defensive responses. But if the tone starts more positive, and it can stay positive for everyone. :-)
As a seller, when I was pondering opening over there in 2018, the catalog dorking with colors for Brickarms created a ton more scrolling for me and could get confusing. The wildly slow response time for paid admins (who were just overwhelmed, I'm not beating them up personally), some of the admin's posts/reactions/mode of communications on the forums to quite legitimate seller concerns, and the ages it took for any new approved feature to get into place... as well as the frequent system downtime all equaled me looking for somewhere else to open shop.
I stumbled over BO - fell in love with the customer interface, got to know the admin by supporting the catalog improvements, and opened up shop here, never looking back. Their response time, the rare bugs, their frequent investment in enhancements/new features, their advertisement strategy - much of that was vastly better than big industry projects and companies I've worked with.
Despite a much smaller seller base, I have never lacked for orders - and last year I made a stupid amount of money (almost too much, it was dangerously close to kicking us up a bracket, despite the business investments I made to try to evade that) I'm here for the duration! :-)
Many of the sellers here are also on BL. Why so hateful about BL?"
What has getting no support to do with the attitude toward BL?
I think most sellers don't like things from BL an don't want some (a lot of) those things on BO.
But as you have said yourself, BL is much bigger, so not selling on BL will mean less selling and less income.
And even though I don't like the limits on BL, it's not a reason to leave.
Thanks anyway.
@Lawrence, please close this discussion.
I have been selling for 12 years, and moved to BrickOwl at pretty much the beginning. Two years ago I went across both platforms.
I can see a reason (not saying good or bad) for both average lot value and total quantity of lots.
I rarely get huge orders but when I do they are huge. I use trays (really useful boxes - the company) each has 15 compartments, I place each lot in a compartment, and I had 15 trays. When faced with an order over 225 lots, it got difficult to handle. I have more trays now so that issue has gone.
Late last year and early this year. I was swamped with orders, more than I could handle. I started making mistakes working a 10hour+ day. I had to find a way of slowing things down. ALV was the only way I could see.
Which on BrickLink wasn't a problem, since introducing (something I said I'd never do) I have had zero complaints and very pleasant feedback from satisfied customers. On BrickOwl I found a (very poor) work around by introducing ALV of $0.50 and only accepting PayPal payments of $10+ (personal check or money order below that) again no complaints and no derogatory feedback.
Personally I feel that those limits should be available (both ALV and total # of lots) if the seller wishes to loose business so be it!
As above that's exactly what I needed to do for my sanity. Customers can choose to shop elsewhere if they don't like a stores settings.
As a buyer I have zero problems with any limits, or fees, as long as I know upfront before committing to purchase. Which here is a non issue, and now with instant check out not an issue there either.
Just my 0.02
You would have to know someone with this condition (my son) to understand how "they" can come across as blunt and/or rude, and think somewhat differently to other folks. Please bare that in mind, with further conversation.
BTW @Graham you've identified the wrong person.
I'm only a buyer and I've only shopped lego parts from BO.
Once, i accidentally spent a lot of time choosing random pieces from a shop that had the average lot value (ALV) limit setup, without noticing this until i tried to check out, and i can tell you i felt really disappointed, and wished i had noticed such restriction (maybe something to improve in the User Interface for @Lawrence).
Also, i wish i had known (or had been offered by the site) about saving that list (wishlist?) and see if some other seller would have been ready to sell that to me. I would have likely paid a bit more for not having to browse again to complete that list.
I can understand why some sellers may want to set up a limit. As a matter of fact, i see such a trend very often in supermarkets having an offer on a product and limiting the amount of units a household can purchase. As long as the terms and conditions are clear from the beginning i don't see the problem with that. Again, the UI plays a critical role in making the User experience (UX) positive by helping to bring up such limitations in a proactive and clear way.
On the other hand, i have understood from some of the comments here, that some sellers abuse of such lot limitations to make more money with hidden (?) handling fees and maybe that's what Lawrence wanted to avoid.
Wishing you all good health and prosper business!